Author Topic: Avro Arrow (Read 5292 times)

WilldCrd · « **Reply #30 on:** July 07, 2004, 03:43:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
Interceptor is spelled with a "c". The Mig-25 was indeed designed as a bomber interceptor, however it did well as a fighter as well. In the 1991 gulf war an Iraqi Mig-25 was the only Iraqi plane to score a kill on a coalition plane (Marine F-18), and he got away with it. Other Mig-25 unsuccessfully engaged EF-111 while evading their F-15 escorts at will.

" The MiG-25 saw combat during the Gulf War. A MiG-25PD recorded the only Iraqi air-to-air kill during the war. It shot down an F/A-18 on the first night of the war, then went on to fire missiles at A-6 and A-7 attach aircraft, while avoiding escorting F-14 and F-15 fighters. In another incident, an Iraqi Foxbat-E eluded eight American F-15's, firing three missiles at EF-111 electronic warfare aircraft and forcing them to abort their mission. In yet another incident, two MiG-25's approached a pair of F-15 Eagles, fired missiles (which were evaded by the F-15's), and then outran the American fighters. Two more F-15's joined the pursuit, and a total of ten air-to-air missiles were fired at the Foxbats, none could reach them."

source?

SLO · « **Reply #31 on:** July 07, 2004, 03:52:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
The engineers that worked on that project went on to become lead engineers for just about every big aircraft manufacture in Britain and the US as well as NASA.

yup...

the lead design engineer for the SR71 BlackBird was the 1 who did the Arrow....

the lunar lander was designed by an Arrow designer....

so on so forth....we are invading the US from the inside...muhahahaha...muahaha hahahahahaha.....muahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahaha

guess

Chairboy · « **Reply #32 on:** July 07, 2004, 03:54:06 PM »

For a good book on the Arrow and the subsequent fate of the amazing engineers that were responsible for it, read 'Arrows to the Moon'.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1896522831/qid=1089233594/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-4041021-0054449?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

WilldCrd · « **Reply #33 on:** July 07, 2004, 04:11:45 PM »

from one of your "sources" gscholz

The MiG-25 that was clocked at Mach 3.2 by the Israelis achieved this speed while running from an intercepting F-4 (which can barely manage Mach 2 on a good day--before running out of fuel). Upon landing, both engines in the MiG had to be replaced.

Victor Belenko, the Foxbat pilot who defected in 1976, stated that the top speed of the MiG-25 was Mach 2.8, but flight above Mach 2.6 was difficult because of a tendency of the engines to overspeed. Victor related that MiG-25 pilots were in fact restricted to flying below Mach 2.5 except with special permission.

My God! Look what this thing is made of! Why, the dumb bastards don't have transistors; they're still using vacuum tubes! These engines are monsters! Maybe the Sovs have a separate refinery for each plane! Jesus! See these rivet heads sticking out, and look at that welding! They did it by hand! Hell, the pilot can't see a thing unless it's practically in front of him! This contraption isn't an airplane; it's a rocket! Hey, see what they've done here! How clever! They were able to use aluminum! Why didn't we ever think of that? How ingenious! It's brilliant!
MiG Pilot : The Final Escape of Lieutenant Belenko

it should be noted that your sources all derive their info from a discussion thread and not from an actual "source" such as Russian design companys

Pongo · « **Reply #34 on:** July 07, 2004, 04:13:14 PM »

The planes that the Arrow was designed to intercept were not fielded till the mid 80s and only then in single digits.. A fleet of hyper expensive single role aircraft that have no enemy.
That is what killed the YF-12.. its cool but what do you do with it. The Soviets never developed a supersonic polar bomber till 30 or so years after the Arrow was scrapped.

As to why the plane was scrubbed from history. If it was available for airshows to show up the latest and greatest from arround the world(or the F101s that we bought from the americans in the end.) Then it would have been a far worse embarassment then it was as a mystery.

Great american planes of the 50s and 60s that disappeared for what ever political or military or bugital reason are just statistics.
If its a canadian plane its a legend for some reason.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #35 on:** July 07, 2004, 04:28:11 PM »

The Arrow goes with Vampires, Starfighters, Thunderchiefs, etc. Good planes for their days.

This is the True Canadian Legend...

Nothing beats a DH Beaver.

Chairboy · « **Reply #36 on:** July 07, 2004, 04:55:16 PM »

I thought for some reason he was disputing the Mig-25 shooting down the F-18, but his post confuses me as well.

Thrawn · « **Reply #37 on:** July 07, 2004, 06:08:45 PM »

For me it's not just the plane, but the incredible team of engineers we lost to the US and GB. They made the Arrow, we saw what they would make next for other countries.

"This is the True Canadian Legend..."

That and the Twin Otter.

WilldCrd · « **Reply #38 on:** July 07, 2004, 10:57:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
What exactly are you disputing?

Im not disputing anything really. I was just pointing out the the sources aren't really reliable. One is a discussion thread {no experts} another is a extreme vacation kinda site and the first one is really just hearsay.

All the sites have some facts but also have some err...embeleshments. And none offer actual first hand knowledge

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 08, 2004, 12:21:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
"This is the True Canadian Legend..."

CRJ

J_A_B · « **Reply #40 on:** July 08, 2004, 01:20:10 AM »

Poor Canadians. They were going to all that effort to build a world-beating interceptor to protect their country with.

And what was the US doing? Deploying a nuclear rocket to kill Soviet bombers with.....over Canada, of course.

The pure thought of it is funny in a sad sort of way, even knowing that in reality the GENIE really wasn't all that bad.

J_A_B

Chairboy · « **Reply #41 on:** July 08, 2004, 01:26:59 AM »

If by 'genie' you mean massive nuclear warfare, then it was exactly as bad as we thought, we just lucked out because nobody rubbed the bottle.

J_A_B · « **Reply #42 on:** July 08, 2004, 02:04:28 AM »

GENIE was the designation for the MB-1 (later known as the AIR-2A) nuclear air-to-air rocket which the USAF used.

By "not that bad" I mean that it was rather small yield by nuclear standards with a fireball "only" about 1500 feet across.

I guess the thought was that a ~1kt explosion over Canada was better than a 100 kt explosion over Chicago.

Look up "davey crocket" if you wish to learn of an even more misguided US weapon idea.

J_A_B

Furball · « **Reply #43 on:** July 08, 2004, 03:29:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Seriously though why scarp these cool planes? They could be used for flight research or at least put up in a museum.. Same with TSR 2..

There is a TSR 2 at Duxford. Apparently the TSR 2 research helped with the design of the Tornado.

Quote

Originally posted by WilldCrd

On a side note the F-14 remains the fastest Fighter with a top speed of mach 2.4 even today {its 30 years old BTW}

I thought the F-15 could do mach 2.5?

Torque · « **Reply #44 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:39:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
Poor Canadians. They were going to all that effort to build a world-beating interceptor to protect their country with.

And what was the US doing? Deploying a nuclear rocket to kill Soviet bombers with.....over Canada, of course.

The pure thought of it is funny in a sad sort of way, even knowing that in reality the GENIE really wasn't all that bad.

J_A_B

True.