CV Wussies in command

[miko2d]

 What are you talking about guys?

 CV are not landing craft! They are not supposed to bring the airplanes rignt into the enemy's small arms range. The planes are supposed to fly from CVs! You do not need to have enemy in visual range in order to fly. Especially with enemy having big guns himself (and probably coastal and field artillery later).
 Also, CVs are not supposed to participate in ship to ship action. The game is called Aces High not Sailors Wet so use the CV as they were designed to be used - as a mobile airfields.

 In fact, the whole idea of CV tactics in WWII consisted of hiding your CVs from the enemy while launching planes and seeking out the enemy's fleet. No mad dashes and boarding actions.

 Combining two CVs into one group in AH seems to me a singularly dumb idea. With no limit on the number of planes that can be launched from one CV and the same limited number of players there is no tactical advantage to having them together in one spot and uncovering the other side of the map. Unless an idiot in charge just wants to see more ships on his screen! I would retract that idiot statement if someone shows me any reason to have two fleets together other then a pretty screenshot.

miko

[Lephturn]

A couple of points:

First, I think there is some confusion about the topic.  I think Dago was complaining about the CV's being so far away that they are not useful for launching aircraft from.  Nobody said you should sail them right up to the enemy port so they CV can die to tanks.  The bottom line for me is that the CV should be in a position where I can reasonably launch aircraft from it.  I don't want it to be in the middle of the fight, more like a sector away so I can launch and grab before I attack.  I think that's reasonable.

Second, there are two reasons I can think of that putting two CV's together might be a benefit.  You increase the amount of AAA an enemy has to fly through to get your CV, and you double the number of heavy guns you have for bombardment.  Now I think in many cases it would be better to use the other CV as a second mobile platform from which to press the enemy from a slightly different approach, if not on another front.

I think there is merit in only allowing a player to control one CV at a time.  Share the wealth.    Not saying you could or should stop folks from running two CV's together, but generally it makes sense to me that more folks get a chance to run the ships.  If you want a co-ordinated strike you just have to communicate with whoever is driving the other CV.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[Pepino]

miko,

Thks for your kind reply, if it was addressed to me. Thnks in the name of the adresse If it was not. Sure he/she will appreciate it on what it's worth.

Seeing it, I think my poor english does not allow me to explain myself properly.

When I say working toghether I do not mean visual range whatsoever. Working + Togheter implies only common strategic goals, and allow not only separate tasks but even separate tactics. I do not know where in my text (If your answer relates to my post) is visual range or having them on the same spot. I am sure you have some reasons beyond my limited intelligence not to consider this point but, sorry, they escape me.

Besides that, Task Groups (that's how they are deployed here) comprise not only CV's but also escorts. And there is a cruiser on each one with some 8" and some 5" that can meka a nice (but tricky) work in shore bombardment and fleet to fleet engagement. So if you put 2 in a spot, you double firepower...sorry to explain that to you, but being so dumb, I want to make sure I'm making the proper maths.

I don't know if this reason is good enough by your obviously higher and more clever than mine standards. Anyway, having taken a look to the mirror this morning, I have assumed my dayly idiocy quota, so your post do not offend me.

btw, my evident lack of perspicacy and inference ability made impossible the task of having a look at your gaming trajectory in current version. I tried miko, miko2d with no result. Can you please provide me with your handle so I can check, and give credit to your authorised opinion?. I did not look for past ones since navy was not implemented, and, as is it crystal clear you are not an idiot, it would be evident to you that its absence would nullify your entitlement to give any opinion about CV (in my idiocy I would start to call it TG) use & misuse in the MA.

Sure I am an Idiot, and that must be the reason I do not care about some virtual personna calling me that in my virtual face.

Feel free to correct me If I am wrong, I always appreciate intelligent, constructive criticism, as you evidently showed in your last post. And forgive me for this long post that you, from your superior point of view, will have forseen in all its points. I'm doubtless about this.

Cheers,

Pepe

[Vermillion]

A famous quote applies here....

DAMN the torpedo's,  full speed ahead!!

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Mighty1]

I can see taking a CV away from a fight IF you are being overwhelmed.

I think it's a great idea that you can take over command from someone because we have some dicks that will take the CV away from a fight just because it pisses people off.

I had to take command a couple of days ago because this guy was trying to move the fleet deep into our territory just so the gunners on the ship couldn't steal his kills.

[Nash]

Yeah, I think Leph pointed out what is also my understanding of the complaint... Not that the CV is isn't charging directly at another fleet.... But that the CVs are being hidden well away from anything as to be unusable, for the sole purpose of denying another country any chance of regaining their fleet. This is just wrong.

About two fleets being used together... I saw the same thing on the weekend, and asked why this was being done. I was told that the fleet more than doubles in its power to over-run the enemy... and damn if they weren't right. As that fleet steamed up the map, we captured base after base after base... nearly invincible. Not a bad tactic at all, it turns out.

[Citabria]

i had one guy say i sucked at being cv captain cuz the cv wasn't withing 2 miles of the enemy base... he wanted it point blank.

i prefered to keep it a reasonable 10+ miles from the heavily defended enemy base combined with the fact that the cv was over 125 miles from its port. if it was kamakazi'd by the never ending wave of dweebs in chogs w 2k of bombs in a death dive the cv would be out of action a long time.

well he and some others kept whining so i got pissed (like I so often do   ) and gave up the helm to them to do as they pleased.

naturally the new cv captain drove the task group right up to the beach and was promptly blown to hell some 135 miles from the fight within minutes of reaching his "furball heaven".

had a good laugh over that one.

[Dago]

Great, this is what I like, open discussion of tactics and asset utilization.

I think Lept grabbed the idea, that you need to take a fleet to a position where it can be used strategically.  When you move it farther away from the enemy fields than 3 other of your fields, whats the point in having it?

Personally, I would be interested in seeing 2 fleets combined to study the effects it would have in terms of defendability, and attack power.

Either way, a hidden fleet or a fleet kept well out of effective range is just a waste. PT boats spawn at the cv, but if it is so far way, they are useless.

This is a game about virtual battles, about action and fun. To be in the game, you must be IN THE GAME. (or sim if you care about what I call it)

An old guy I used to work with often said "the good Lord hates a coward".  Be a killer, not a coward.  

Dago

[eskimo]

Late last night A-19 and P-21 were completely overwhelmed and capture of both was eminent.  I steered TG-20 directly away from 19 and 21 in hopes of denying the Knights TG-20.  I would have run it off the map if I could have.  One or two determined guys can sink the CV, and capture it, and they did. (I have personally sunk 10 CVs this tour.)  If we couldn't defend 19 and the port, then we weren't going to be able to defend the CV that close to the enemy either.  I also had three people (who also recognized the situation for what it was) who personally requested that I pull it out of the area, before I took command of it.

Driving the CV is not as simple as: attack the nearest enemy base point blank, regardless of the odds.  
Aggressive action with the CV often results in it being sunk, which can be a big, or small loss.
I have been aboard about 8 Cvs when they were sunk, and was never surprised.  It takes a lot of foresight to predict when to pull the ships out, because they are so slow.

If the enemy holds a base near your port, and they do not have the upper hand numbers-wise and they are not attacking your port, then attacking that base point blank makes sense.  You only have a short drive to lose if they sink it.  

If you have a CV deep into enemy territory, and it is a long way from your port, then you have a lot to lose if it is sunk, it may be hours before it can be in range again.  
            
Running two Cvs side by side is not always a bad option, if you lose one, CV ops are not shut down.  If they do not turn at exactly the same time, aircraft can always take off and land.  Defensive AA is also doubled, as well as cruiser guns.  

I would not deny that anyone who is ranked higher than I has a lesser understanding of game strategy than myself.  If you want control of the CV more often, increase your rank, it's as simple as that.  Look at the scores of Citabria and Winqck, compare them to your own, and tell us why you should get command over them.  Please do not respond to this comment without actually looking at their scores and #s.

eskimo

[Dago]

If you have a CV deep into enemy territory, and it is a long way from your port, then you have a lot to lose if it is
 sunk, it may be hours before it can be in range again.

And therein lies the Catch 22.

If you keep it away from the fight so it wont get sunk, you cant fight it.  If you take it to the fight and it gets sunk, it takes a while before you can use it.

So, your options are:
1) Hide it or keep it away from danger, and then it is pretty useless
2) Take it to the battle area, fight it and enjoy it, risk having it sunk and not be able to use it again for a while.

My choice is 2).  At least that way you have been able to use it for a while, enjoying the new element that has been added to AH.  Better that than not being able to have fun with it for a while.

Dago

[TheWobble]

Dago, there is a middle ground.

1. never drive up to the bank near other base or head into another cv group, thats just stupid.

2. dont head off to gilligans ile where everyone taking off needs drop tanks and rations, thats just annoying.

3. Keep the enemy at arms length, about 50 to 80k, out of range of guns but within reasonable distance of torp and dive bomb attacks.

4. Never come withing 20k of a group unless their H-cruiser is down.

5. 100-200 miles from enemy, figter cap not necessary, 90-50 miles from enemy fighter cap is adviseable, 40 on in YOU BETTER HAVE A FIGHTER CAP!

6. make sure at least 1 person is manning guns.

7. pt boats attack a base or carrier from farther than 40 miles away  is dumb, ties up recources for too long, take a plane.

8. WATCH FOR HEAVY BOMBERS! and when you see them dont start trying to gun them down, first and formost get the fleet moving off its current course dont let it go straight while a a bomber is near.

9. Dont let the big cruiser get sunk, because the next cv ya see will come straight at you if they have any sense.

10. if you have your cruiser and other cv doesent, get withing about 20k and maintain that distance, put up heavy fighter cover and pummel away with the 8", dont get closer than 15k because then other cv can fire on you with carrier deck guns and they can mess you up quick if they get the range,

11. TEAMWORK! try as hard as you can to get everyone flying from you CV to work together, individualism gets CV's  sunk faster than any bomb or torp.

I know i left some things out but them are pretty good guidelines.

[Maverick]

Torque,

I never mentioned your name nor did I intend to. I was criticizing the choice you made and continuing selfish actions on your part.

As for the vast majority of your post. Most everyone in this game can whip me in the arena, both MA and TA. So what? Heres a clue for you. This game is not my life. I have other things to do that include flying for real, not just as a wannabe video pilot.

Crow all you want about how bad you are in a game. I really don't care.

Your post pretty much summed up you attitude and maturity level. Your second post was a real winner. If I were to consider trying to kiss your ass, I wouldn't know where to start, that's all you are it seems IMO.

Mav

Now flame away for it means absolutely nothing.

[Torque]

 

Originally posted by Maverick:
Torque,
Now flame away for it means absolutely nothing.

Mav take your own advice.

[SKurj]

NEVER get within 8k of an enemy base.  If the fleet you are driving is in need of a turn to keep guns on the base, turn AWAY from it.  CV is a real easy kill in a panzer, if u get within 8k of a panzer in the CV, especially a pz spawn point, you might as well start swimming.


AKskurj

[TheWobble]

JESUS CHRIST!
your gonna find much love on this board!
happy cooking.