Perk 3-Gun La-7, Add 2-Gun La-7?

[straffo]

hmmm ...

It's not realy wise to end in the domain where the LA7 shine.
And so it's more a pilot/ACM error than being the victim of a über plane.


And btw a D9 accelerate faster than a Typhoon with wep ,without wep they are on par.

[Urchin]

Lol, I always hear that and it is always nonsense.  Tell you what, you fly a Dora at oh, 12k, and I'll meet you in an La-7.  

If I get the advantage, what are you gonna do?  Try to climb away from me to where your plane has a larger "performance advantage"?  Good luck with that.  

If you get on my 6, I can just dive down to shake you, then continue the fight at my leisure.

[straffo]

I'm gona dive ,wep away and try to kill you when you will rtb because bingo fuel ...

Not very sport but efficient

[Kweassa]

Is it a "tactic".. sure.. I guess. If you use the word loosely. Air COMBAT Manuevering
Sorry.

 No Urchin. Your using the concept of "combat" and "tactic" strictly to the style which you personally prefer.

 Run to ack, fly in hordes, cherry pick, bore n zoom, sissy pansy cowardly fighting whatever it is, as long as you meet an enemy and engage, even if you run away sometime during the fight, it is a 'combat', and anything having to do with it is a 'tactic'.

 Sure, some tactics are boring. Others are really a mark of skill-lessness. But whatever the pilot decides to is strictly upon his choice, not yours. As much as the consequences are his own and not yours. So a guy flies boring? Then he rarely gets a kill. He flies in hordes? Then he doesn't get to have fun when his team gets outnumbered.

 The 2nd and 3rd person don't have a say in whats a tactic and what not.

 I know I can never beat a guy like you one on one, so if I get a chance, I'll use whatever necessary thing it takes to shoot you down. If I can't do that, I'm gonna run.

 Please, don't go the way of the Shane. It's a sad path to follow.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by straffo
hmmm ...

It's not realy wise to end in the domain where the LA7 shine.
And so it's more a pilot/ACM error than being the victim of a über plane.


And btw a D9 accelerate faster than a Typhoon with wep ,without wep they are on par.

The problem is...It's not particularily hard to make any and every fight end up in the 'domain' of the La7, a little stick stir here, snap spin there, and voila you're on the deck.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Zazen13
The problem is...It's not particularily hard to make any and every fight end up in the 'domain' of the La7, a little stick stir here, snap spin there, and voila you're on the deck.

That's why the La7 are in the top my kill list

[Replicant]

I find the Typhoon accelerates poorly between 150mph - 350mph and is rather vulnerable to even A6Ms.

The best thing I find about the La7 is its acceleration.  It's a brilliant point defence aircraft, especially on the deck.  I find it turns rather poorly at speed (Typhoon can easily turn inside it) and doesn't pull out of a dive as well either.  

Has anyone experienced the La7 vs Tempest on the deck?  It would be interesting to see if the La7 was faster.

As for the 190D9, it appears to be a bit faster in AH2, is that confirmed?  I see many more people flying this plane now which is refreshing.

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Kweassa

 I know I can never beat a guy like you one on one, so if I get a chance, I'll use whatever necessary thing it takes to shoot you down. If I can't do that, I'm gonna run.

 

Very true Kweassa.  If I'm outnumbered and have a fast plane and a turn fighter on my six then I'm going to try and extend enough so I can engage.  Hopefully the slower turn fighter might have broken off allowing a 1 vs 1.  If you're able to finish that plane off before the turn fighter comes back then you have a fair chance of shooting the other guy down.  Of course if you have loads behind you then I'm going to run like buggery!

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Urchin
By the way...  "the only form of ACM is close quarter stall fighting".

This of course is rubbish...........its just the only form of ACM certain pilits espose........

Angles fighting is not of necessity a form of combat that requires you to play at the edge of stall................


Reading Shaw one notes that this was written primarily for jet fighters.....

I agree cherry picking is not combat ..............its opportunism and it can be very "unsporting"

"Running to ack/allies", "escaping", "breaking off", "massively extending" is not combat its ending combat.........  its just annoying for the experten when' having out manouvered his quarry, it simply runs away denying him the ultimate prize .....ie the death of his foe.

Guns alone of the 3 cannon La7 are superior in lethality to the P51 however the combined effect of platform stability, spread of fire and weaponry favours the P51 IMO. (However I would agree the two are closer than the others and that this would not be such an issue for those who are a more profficient shot than I)

Actually (and he will correct me) from the Shane stuff I have seen he does not rely only on low speed stall stuff...................... he just gets his angles smack on.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Replicant
I find the Typhoon accelerates poorly between 150mph - 350mph and is rather vulnerable to even A6Ms.

The best thing I find about the La7 is its acceleration.  It's a brilliant point defence aircraft, especially on the deck.  I find it turns rather poorly at speed (Typhoon can easily turn inside it) and doesn't pull out of a dive as well either.  

Has anyone experienced the La7 vs Tempest on the deck?  It would be interesting to see if the La7 was faster.

As for the 190D9, it appears to be a bit faster in AH2, is that confirmed?  I see many more people flying this plane now which is refreshing.

I've felt that the Tiffie had superior acceleration to the 109/190s.. a typical "evasive" if you dive on a Typhoon is for them to pull a flat turn or loop, then level out and run if you follow them through it, accelerating away.

La7 vs Tempest I've done in AH1, not AH2.  In AH1, the La7 is a match for the Tempest.  The La-7 turns better, the Tempest has slightly better vertical performance (zoom climbing, rolling scissors stuff).  All in all I'd say it is a fight that would come down to pilot skill, which would typically favor the Tempest.  

Level speed wise, the La7 is about 5-7 mph slower than the Tempest on the deck.  If the Tempest runs out of WEP while the La-7 still has some it is in trouble though.

I've heard other people say the Dora seems faster in AH2, I haven't flown it much.  I cant stand it in AH2, it cant fight worth a ****.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Urchin
I've felt that the Tiffie had superior acceleration to the 109/190s.. a typical "evasive" if you dive on a Typhoon is for them to pull a flat turn or loop, then level out and run if you follow them through it, accelerating away.

hmmmm ... knowing the typhoon typicaly it's not level it's a Zero G dive at least.

And I won't bet a kopeck on a typhoon at 200 mph followed by either a 190 or 109.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Urchin
I've felt that the Tiffie had superior acceleration to the 109/190s.. a typical "evasive" if you dive on a Typhoon is for them to pull a flat turn or loop, then level out and run if you follow them through it, accelerating away.

La7 vs Tempest I've done in AH1, not AH2.  In AH1, the La7 is a match for the Tempest.  The La-7 turns better, the Tempest has slightly better vertical performance (zoom climbing, rolling scissors stuff).  All in all I'd say it is a fight that would come down to pilot skill, which would typically favor the Tempest.  

Level speed wise, the La7 is about 5-7 mph slower than the Tempest on the deck.  If the Tempest runs out of WEP while the La-7 still has some it is in trouble though.

I've heard other people say the Dora seems faster in AH2, I haven't flown it much.  I cant stand it in AH2, it cant fight worth a ****.

I have alot of Tempest experience in AH1 and AH2, the Tempest can out-turn the La7, but the Tempest in no way, shape or form can out roll the La7. The difference in, on the deck, speed is so minimal it's usually a matter of who has wep left or who got the head start on accelerating up to speed. All things considered, I consider the Tempest to be the premier choice for La7 hunting. As far as I know it's the only plane that occupies the La7's niche with a distinct advanatge in more than 1 decisive area (turnrate & firepower) with a similiar low level top speed. Perhaps the Spit14 does as well, but I can't say from personal experience having never flown one.

The AH2 version of the P51D would be my second choice, but as noted previously, the La7 out-acclerates the P51D enough that it can disengage at will. It is because of the fact that only a high cost perk plane can compete with an La7 on equal terms, on paper, in it's 15k- niche I have always been an advocate of attaching at least a minimal perk cost to the La7 as a means to curtail its overuse as was done with the F4U-1C simply because it was a decent turner with great guns that people chose to fly alot for that reason. Sounds just like the La7 except turnrate is replaced by un-matched low level speed.

The Ta-152 is an example of a plane that is the master of it's niche with a perk cost associated with it for as far as I can tell no other good reason. The fact that most fights either start or end up at 10k or below further exacerbates the problem with the La7. The Ta-152 is perked because it's great above 30k, how many 30k+ fights have any of you had in recent memory? How many Ta-152's have you seen in the past few months? How many La7's have you seen in the same period? How many fights have you had begin or end below 10k in the past few months? You get my point....





Zazen

[Simaril]

I'm no vet, and my ACM skills are at best developing. I use E concepts, but my timing and 3D visualization need work. I kill, overall, maybe 20% more than I am killed.

The point?

My top 4 fighter kill totals are against La-7s, P-51s, Spit IXs and Nikis . [Edit -- I actually have a excel spreadsheet for my stats, making me a dweebgeek on several levels at once]

All this talk of  theoretic advantages assumes that the pilots know what they're driving, and know how to extract the built in advantages - like how to make the tiffy behind your Fw try to follow you into a snap roll, and how to make them toast because of it.

But, they don't -- because most skilled pilots tire of those mounts and look for greater challenges in less capable planes. Less skilled people continue to use them, because they are survivable after mistakes.

And I think that's a big chunk of what burns the stars about the so-called "dweeb rides." After making a great move, with artistry that the poor newbie didn't even have the sense to appreciate, the ace ACM pilot watches the ingrate accelerate and escape!!! The nerve, the gall!!!

Or, even worse, in the middle of an epic base defense, the vet is surprised by the fifth plane in the furball, the only one to escape his SA --- and it's a dratted LA, dropping from 5k above on his 6 with energy but no skill!



If you want purist 1v1 action, go to the DA. If your love is small unit furballing with challenging planesets, go to the CT. In MA, have the good grace to enjoy the chaos, harvest the crop of dweebs in fast planes, realize that in war aces are killed by the unskilled too, and quit griping.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Simaril
My top 4 fighter kill totals are against La-7s, P-51s, Spit IXs and Nikis . [Edit -- I actually have a excel spreadsheet for my stats, making me a dweebgeek on several levels at once]

look here : http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/personalstats.php?sortby=skratio_sort&player=

[Simaril]

thanks for the link! I've got some per month graphs and stuff that come from the excel, but at least this data will be well sorted ahead of time for the ol' cut and paste....