Author Topic: Will Kerry run YOU off the road? (Read 2315 times)

rpm · « **Reply #30 on:** July 12, 2004, 11:17:02 AM »

They are very close to production. You can find the story HERE.

lazs2 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12, 2004, 11:43:51 AM »

but wait curval... by your reasoning...

If fossil fuel costs enough then car makers will be forced to embrace expensive alternatives.

How much does the price have to rise? In europe, it is allready 6 dollars a gallon and no altrenative sources are flooding the market? Are you saying that it would not be worth selling alternative cars to the entire euro and jap market or...

that the U.S. would be different? That the U.S. automakers are so advanced over their euro bretheren that it would work here?

I do not want a repeat of the 70's where technolodgy was not up to the standards impossed.... the cars forced on us were crap... just as many of the electric and no fossil fuel ones that were forced on California were a few years ago... you can't give em away now. No one gained by such mandates.

I am saying let nature and supply and demand take it's course.... You are saying force people to suffer for the sake of suffering and maybe moving a year or two faster than would have evolved naturaly..

The cars get better every year... we get closer every year to alternative fuels... kerry will drag us back into the silliness that was the 70's for no reason other than to pad governments coffers.

again... if the tech is so readily available and so good and cheap.... whay aren't the long suffering euros doing it?

What is the point of mandating milage standards and artificially raising gas prices? We have plenty of very high gas milage vehicles available and people who like them will buy them... What is the point of punishing everyone else? What problems has it solved in europe?

Rpm... if you could stop being such a knee jerk liberal you would understand all this or maybe.... you are waiting for the new moore movie on how we are all being kept in the dark about a new wonder fuel that could power our $1,000 cars for pennies a year? you realize that the prototype you are looking at would cost $300,000 to produce?

It is going to take time... kerry has no magic answer and in fact... he will just make a big mess of it.

lazs

rpm · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12, 2004, 11:53:09 AM »

Quote

Rpm... if you could stop being such a knee jerk liberal you would understand all this or maybe.... you are waiting for the new moore movie on how we are all being kept in the dark about a new wonder fuel that could power our $1,000 cars for pennies a year? you realize that the prototype you are looking at would cost $300,000 to produce?

GM HYDROGEN3

Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 5-door van
Estimated base price: $55,000 (if mass-produced in 2003)
Engine type: 3-phase asynchronous AC electric motor powered by 200 fuel cells capable of generating 94 kW, GM motor controller
Power (SAE net): 80 bhp @ 5000 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 159 lb-ft @ 0 rpm
Transmission: 1-speed
Wheelbase: 106.1 in
Length: 170.0 in
Width: 68.6 in
Height: 66.3 in
Curb weight: 3500 lb
Manufacturer's performance ratings:
Zero to 60 mph: 16.0 sec
Top speed (drag limited): 99 mph

GM HY-WIRE

Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Estimated base price: $65,000 (if mass-produced in 2020)
Engine type: 3-phase asynchronous AC electric motor powered by 200 fuel cells capable of generating 94 kW, GM motor controller
Power (SAE net): 80 bhp @ 5000 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 159 lb-ft @ 0 rpm
Transmission: 1-speed
Wheelbase: 122.6 in
Length: 195.0 in
Width: 75.0 in
Height: 62.7 in
Curb weight: 4200 lb
Manufacturer's performance ratings:
Zero to 40 mph: 10.0 sec
Top speed (governor limited): 40 mph

Who's the knee-jerker now laz?

AKIron · « **Reply #33 on:** July 12, 2004, 11:56:15 AM »

They're talking about increasing the pressure in those hydrogen tanks in the Hy-Wire from 5,000 psi to 10,000 psi. Can you imagine the explosion if one of those tanks ruptured?

rpm · « **Reply #34 on:** July 12, 2004, 11:58:24 AM »

I wouldn't want to be around when it ruptured. I don't want to be around when a gas tank explodes either.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #35 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:03:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Coolridr
are they gonna do something to make the hydogen safe or is every car accident gonna be like a mini HINDENBURG?

This administration (and past) support the investigation of alternative fuel sources and give money to make those studies feasible. R&D always comes before a reasonable, tangible product.
http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2001/02/12/daily81.html

The real problem as it stands now is not the volitility of automobiles upon impact, thats been solved with gel bags or something like that..the problem as it stands now is primarily learning how to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen without using fossil fuels. The answer lies in Nanotechnology and recently a large grant was given to further explore this technology as well (google search it, I read an article a few months back).

We'll see hydrogen cars as we do hybrids, sometime in our lifetime I'm sure.

It's ALL good. And those who choose to keep their "classics" will just pay alittle more at the pumps for convention gasoline burning engines. Its not like those will disappear, it will be treated as a luxury item like a boat.

AKIron · « **Reply #36 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:03:15 PM »

Me either but I'll bet a gas tank exploding looks tame comparatively.

Doing some reading on current hydrogen tank testing. Looks like they may be able to make them pretty safe.

rpm · « **Reply #37 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:09:03 PM »

I want one of these:

lazs2 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:12:06 PM »

so.. if they are so good and safe and cheap and good for us...

Where are they? Certainly there would be a huge market for such a car...

who would not want a $65,000 front wheel drive 4 door sedan with 80 hp and a 40 mph top speed and a o-60 time of .... infinity?

So you would be comfortable with making it so expensive (tax em into rubble) to own conventional cars that get 25-40 mpg in order to accomplish.... what? making it impossible for a large segment of the population to get around? to be employed?

Letting the technolodgy evolve naturaly would be bad because of... what?

They are getting there but they are a ways off.... don't be such a woman... have some patience. kerries ideas will just screw things up for no real reason at this point.

Look at the great electric car debacle of a few years ago or the smog debacle of the 70's... both government mandates that were too far ahead of their time. both bad ideas poorly implemented... How many examples do you need? Oh, I know... one more... force hydrogen on us.

lazs

Ripsnort · « **Reply #39 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:15:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
so.. if they are so good and safe and cheap and good for us...

Where are they? Certainly there would be a huge market for such a car...

who would not want a $65,000 front wheel drive 4 door sedan with 80 hp and a 40 mph top speed and a o-60 time of .... infinity?

So you would be comfortable with making it so expensive (tax em into rubble) to own conventional cars that get 25-40 mpg in order to accomplish.... what? making it impossible for a large segment of the population to get around? to be employed?

Letting the technolodgy evolve naturaly would be bad because of... what?

They are getting there but they are a ways off.... don't be such a woman... have some patience. kerries ideas will just screw things up for no real reason at this point.

Look at the great electric car debacle of a few years ago or the smog debacle of the 70's... both government mandates that were too far ahead of their time. both bad ideas poorly implemented... How many examples do you need? Oh, I know... one more... force hydrogen on us.

lazs

If you considering the explosive force per unit of Gasoline and Hydrogen, I assure you, a well built, well-engineered Hydrogen engine would probably cut your Elky's time in the 1/4 by one half.

rpm · « **Reply #40 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:19:47 PM »

I'm sure they would be "uber-safe" before GM turned them loose. They now have a 10,000psi tank, look for that to climb.

As a rule you don't see the a high pressure cylinder rupture, it's normally a valve or line that gives way first. I've seen 18 Wheelers hauling LPG slammed into moving freight trains (safety video) and not rupture. Saw the 18 wheeler explode from a static spark during loading, too. The technology is there to make it happen soon.

I'd love it if the middle east lost us as a customer. But then they would hate us for NOT buying their oil. You can't win.

lazs2 · « **Reply #41 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:36:15 PM »

the point being... if you aren't a knee jerk liberal then you can wait for the thing to be practical and then people will buy it. Some never will. I don't think that it is a good idea to force people to buy junk. it wasn't in the 70's and it wasn't with the 0 emmissions vehicle debacle here in California.

If you simply need to sound sensitive for a girlfriend or boyfriend (I make no judgements) then simply say you are sensitive and caring and liberal and then go out and vote like a man for Bush anyway and quit making a fool of yourself here.

lazs

AKIron · « **Reply #42 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:37:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm371
I'd love it if the middle east lost us as a customer. But then they would hate us for NOT buying their oil. You can't win.

They'll likely find some reason to hate us no matter what. When we don't need their oil we'll have no reason to placate any of them. We can win.

rpm · « **Reply #43 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:50:17 PM »

The point being.... we need to develop alternative energy. It's not just "sensitive, caring, tree-hugging" liberals that are working on this. GM is not exactly "Democrat Central", just ask Michael Moore.

GM and other auto makers see the future rapidly approaching. Why can't you? If those "tree huggers" back in the 60's had not acted when they did, you would be chewing the air before you breathe it in New York, Dallas, Denver and LA today.

Government forced industry to make the move back then. Today industry has taken the lead and government is playing catch up. I don't think it will be a popular switch, and it will be a slow one to boot. But the car as we know it is going to be alongside the Stanley Steamer in a museum before long.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #44 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:57:55 PM »

rpm is right, this is an issue where both Conservatives and Democrats see eye-to-eye, and it needs to happen sooner than later, hopefully they read the"Lessons Learned" sections of the 70's era and the Electric car era.