Will Kerry run YOU off the road?

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by Curval
YOU are the reason lazs...and the millions of Americans just like you.

Way to generalize, there Curval. I totally forgot that we're nothing but a nation of big-block V8-driving hicks. Silly me.

I'm still trying to figure out where all this extra electricity that's gonna help power the hybrids is gonna come from. High hopes are a good source of power, I heard.

Is the air in our big cities really that much worse than in Paris or Rome? It sure doesn't smell that way.

[Steve]

Estimated base price: $55,000 (if mass-produced in 2003)

How many people do you think can afford this?

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by Steve
How many people do you think can afford this?

Well, more people will after Kerry raises the average annual income for Native Americans by $40,000.

[Curval]

Originally posted by lazs2
but wait curval... by your reasoning...

If fossil fuel costs enough then car makers will be forced to embrace expensive alternatives.

 

No, not at all.

In this particular case any change will be influenced by supply and demand.  Cost is merely a function of this.

For example, demand for hybrid, or alternative fuel consuming, cars will increase when either the supply of oil gets very low or if there is sufficient pollution concerns that causes people to re-think fossil fuel useage.

[GtoRA2]

I got one cool thing from this thread.

A new sig line.

[john9001]

i don't like Kerry , but i have to go with curval on this, i don't need 400 HP and a 5000# car to go to the super mkt to pick up a 12 pack of beer and a couple of steaks.

BTW when i was young and stupid i did have cars that went "brum brum" and smoked tires, then i grew up.

[rpm]

Originally posted by Steve
How many people do you think can afford this?

It will be a leasing situation.

The fuelcell program GM is developing will have no outright sales, only leases. You have to remember, you'll never refill it. It will have 200,000 miles of fuel. (GM's claim, not mine)

The current models carry around 170 miles worth of fuel.


Wow, Rip. This is 2 subjects we agree on. Hope for America yet!

[Curval]

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Way to generalize, there Curval. I totally forgot that we're nothing but a nation of big-block V8-driving hicks. Silly me.

I'm still trying to figure out where all this extra electricity that's gonna help power the hybrids is gonna come from. High hopes are a good source of power, I heard.

Is the air in our big cities really that much worse than in Paris or Rome? It sure doesn't smell that way.

No..lazs and a few million of others are, however and they unapologetically pollute while refusing to even consider alternatives.   Just read this thread....lazs actually thinks he is helping the situation by driving gas guzzlers.  

Look at the Middle East now.  It's just an absolute mess.  Why?  Because that entire region has a whole pile of oil.  Sure there are religious issues etc, but the world only gives a crap about the place because it has the dark black stuff.  If there was no oil there no-one would consider the problems in the Mid-East anything except the Mid-East's problems.

So...the easiest solution to both environmental and world peace concerns would be to find a cheap alternative to oil...and the synthetics that oil produces.

But no....Lazs wants to have a loud car that goes BRUM BRUM and can put smoke into ricer car drivers faces.

It is all about priorities or more accurately supply and demand.

Now...it is kind of funny because I am finding myself defending a Kerry stance in this thread.  I guess the only excuse I have for that is that if there is some cross agreement in certain points they are the ONLY things that I have found myself in agreement with the man.

I hate Kerry.  He is threatening to entirely destroy the financial structure upon which my entire country depends on for its sucess.

So...just because I am arguing one point does not make me a Kerry supporter a liberal or a wimp.  You Americans love to pigion-hole people into political or social baskets.  Easy to do for Americans...you are a democrat or a republican.  Not so easy when there is no such thing as a Democrat or Republican here.

Now...if you took the time to read the link I posted you would see that the car produces its own electricity...by MOVING!  Imagine that.  Very simple concept and one used today in regular cars.

Other big cities are actually DOING something.  Notice that the link I posted details a plan to sell the kits to convert existing cars to hybrid staus to all London taxis.  The company has signed a deal with Puralator Courier...a Canadian operation.

Paris and Rome...they will be along shortly.

[lazs2]

this is funny as heck... If you read what we are all saying we are saying pretty much the same thing.

I say that we will need to develop alternative fuels and vehicles.. I say that GM and others are working furiously to do it.   I say that when they do and the vehicles aren't crap.. and not expensive and not totally impractical...

people will buy em.  Some dumb ****s will buy em before that... curval and rpm want to force us all to be dumb ****s and do it before we need to at great expense...

This is what happened in the 70's   Smog mandates were too much for carburators... until electronic controls it was impractical to get below a certain level on particle emmissons... they were mandated anyway and it about wrecked the economy while actually making things worse.  All th ewhile the manufacturers were working on the technolodgy to make the cars run clean and work well... they finaly did it but it wasn't because of mandates it was because computers caught up with the auto industry...

California mandated "zero emmissons" cars a couple years back... it produced a lot of unviable failures.  

So what is curval telling me?   That I am not open to alternatives?  BS... I am allways open to alternatives... I am a Hot Rodder and reloader for ammo...  No... he wants to jamb half baked ideas down my throat and make me pay more to have less...  He wants us to suffer as much as europe and for about the same result.

When the tech gets good enough you will see the cars... a 40 mph front wheel drive sedan that is explosive and costs $65,000 is not an "alternative" it is a joke...   or, at best... embryonic.

The question is.... How has the $6 a gallon cost of fuel in europe helped to develop alternative fuels?

lazs

[TheDudeDVant]

Originally posted by lazs2
This is what happened in the 70's   Smog mandates were too much for carburators... until electronic controls it was impractical to get below a certain level on particle emmissons... they were mandated anyway and it about wrecked the economy while actually making things worse.  All th ewhile the manufacturers were working on the technolodgy to make the cars run clean and work well... they finaly did it but it wasn't because of mandates it was because computers caught up with the auto industry...

California mandated "zero emmissons" cars a couple years back... it produced a lot of unviable failures.  lazs

Lazs, do you think these 'computers caught up with the auto industry' on thier own, or do you believe they caught up becauce the government mandated the Auto Industry to do this and the auto industry adapted?

And what mandates are different for carburators as opposed to new fuel delivery systems? Smog control is smog control.. The same systems or better systems are in place..

This is a clear example of government giving the push and forcing a industry to adapt and better themselfs and their customers. It DOES have its place..

In looking back, have these smog controls helped us or hurt us? Have they helped the auto industry or hurt it? IMO, it has helped across the board...

[AKIron]

Originally posted by rpm371
You have to remember, you'll never refill it. It will have 200,000 miles of fuel. (GM's claim, not mine)

Nah, that's the life expectancy of the fuel cell. Will still require a constant supply of hydrogen.

[rpm]

Originally posted by lazs2
this is funny as heck... If you read what we are all saying we are saying pretty much the same thing.

I say that we will need to develop alternative fuels and vehicles.. I say that GM and others are working furiously to do it.   I say that when they do and the vehicles aren't crap.. and not expensive and not totally impractical...

people will buy em.  Some dumb ****s will buy em before that... curval and rpm want to force us all to be dumb ****s and do it before we need to at great expense...

This is what happened in the 70's   Smog mandates were too much for carburators... until electronic controls it was impractical to get below a certain level on particle emmissons... they were mandated anyway and it about wrecked the economy while actually making things worse.  All th ewhile the manufacturers were working on the technolodgy to make the cars run clean and work well... they finaly did it but it wasn't because of mandates it was because computers caught up with the auto industry...

lazs

Why do you think the manufacturers were working so hard to get it done? The kindness of their hearts? What whacked Detroit in the 70's was building crap cars while Japan was cranking out good reliable inexpensive ones.  Greed, arrogance and mismanagement were the problem then.

You have to set goals for industry. This is a good one.

I am not trying to force you to live in the new century. Heck, you can be amish live like it's 1880 for all I care. Just don't gripe about progress while you do it.

[Curval]

Originally posted by lazs2
The question is.... How has the $6 a gallon cost of fuel in europe helped to develop alternative fuels?

lazs

Lazs, cost is NOT the issue.  It is supply and demand.  It makes not one speck of difference how much something costs if there is no demand.  Comprendo?

...and by the by...Azure is a Canadian based company that is selling, right now, into European markets...you know, the link I posted that you didn't read.

[lazs2]

and curval... I have nothing against the pioneers or martyrs that jump into the alternative thing with both feet....  more power to em but...

Don't mandate that I be forced to accept substandard products that are in alpha stage of development just to make you feel good or because you are tired of someone having fun or feel like they are kicking sand in your face when they make noise and do burnouts.

If they want to run taxis on alternative fuels or hybrids before it is time then I say let em.   Don't make me pay for it tho.   It won't help in any case... it will happen when it happens.   Some way of doing something will make it more practical and that in turn will make people develop even more things that will work.

What do you propose?  create a crisis???  an artifical and useless "demand"?  

Why isn't there any demand?   at $6 a gallon for fuel there sure as hell shoulda been by now!   How do you propsose we create this "demand" in the U.S. where europe has failed even with it's confiscatory taxes?

Oh, I get it... simply outlaw fossil fuel or.... maybe make it $8 a gallon?   What are you trying rto accomplish and how far are you willing to go to do it?

I don't see how you would do it... Do you think kerries 50 cent a gallon tax is gonna do it?
lazs

[Curval]

Aha...but lazs, I'm an INVESTOR.  In the tradition of free enterprise and capitalism I have invested in a product that will benefit you and millions of other American big block owners.  You will breathe easier and drive cheaper.  It is all to help you....and me.  This is free enterprise I am talking about...you show me where Azure Dynamics has cost you a cent.

Forget Kerry and his politics.  Embrace what I am saying.

Trust me man, you'll be better off.  

The only downside is that you won't think you look quite so cool...and your engine noise won't scare away little old ladies with weak hearts.

You seem to think that hybrids etc are a thing of the future.  You are wrong.  They are here, now.  You just won't even consider them unless they make alot of noise and go real fast.