What is the greatest thing that America has given the world.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Staga
Anonymous and Demaw; maybe you should read This article so you could make the difference between concentration- and extermination camps.

ive been there. crowded? theyve got individual cells most of the time because allowing them three on one with a guard would probably give you a dead guard. were talking about the worst cases here. and there have been plenty of them released back home. most had no complaints about treatment and the ones that claimed massive beatings had "invisible bruises". use some common sense. if we were really going to work them over we sure has hell wouldnt publicize where they were being kept and we wouldnt release anyone. they get good food and first rate medical care. and if they get pressured to answer questions so be it. it could be alot worse and they know it. more than one time some low level piece of trash there has tried to pass himself of as "the other osama" so hed be kept there instead of being turned over to someone else. tell you what ghandi. ill take gitmo and you take a soviet mineral mining "camp" in the eighties. i promise ill be gentle with your wife after you are dead and gone.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Staga
Concetration camp is not the same thing as extermination camp.

Noun   1.   concentration camp - a penal camp where political prisoners or prisoners of war are confined (usually under harsh conditions)
Synonyms: stockade
   
   2.   concentration camp - a situation characterized by crowding and extremely harsh conditions

So if Guantanamo isn't a concentration camp then what is it?

A holiday in the sun ?

it might be harsh if you went there for a speeding ticket or being a blind numbskull of a usa hater on internet bbs. but thats not why they are there. how do you think the world works? some e-4 in afghanistan or africa says "i really dont like that guys face lets send him to gitmo!"? are you one of those guys that thinks most people on death row were innocent victims of circumstance? and if it is a concentration camp the story would have been blown long ago in spectacular fashion. theres more than just americans working down there. so if there is some big fourth reich conspiracy theres ten nations or more in on it and youd better stop making waves before they come take you away in the dark. "first they came for the internet bbs idiots and i said nothing because i was just an american hater-"

[demaw1]

anonymous....just a reply

  Id swear I read in the register about 2 weeks ago they have tracted some of those they released and they went right back  to the terriost. Did u hear anything like that?

[anonymous]

Originally posted by demaw1
anonymous....just a reply

  Id swear I read in the register about 2 weeks ago they have tracted some of those they released and they went right back  to the terriost. Did u hear anything like that?

no but im way out of the loop. retired military for over a year now so its been some time since ive been there and i wasnt interrogator oops i meant ruthless facist gestapo kidney beater. but common sense to me is if they released and went right back to doing actual real terrorist stuff then they were released to be followed. you dont fool the guys in gitmo by saying your truck blew a tire in the shahi khot while you were moving your cousins ak and rpg collection so he could sell it on ebay.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by GScholz
Nope. Show me one IWC ruling against Norway that hasn't been complied with or refuted and subsequently won by Norway. You can't, and we don't have a veto to hide behind either.




I don't have to assume anything. The US Supreme Court already ruled the last two years of detentions illegal, and that the prisoners are in US legal jurisdiction despite being held at the "loophole" base on Cuba where Cuba holds ultimate sovereignty according to its lease of Guantanamo Bay to the US.

Guantanamo has been a legal loophole since the base was established, and the US government and armed forces has pretty much enjoyed Carte Blanc authority there. Which is why they built a detention centre there, to take advantage of the loophole and all the benefits of interrogation and indefinite incarceration that it allows.





http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3867067.stm


You can either call them soldiers and give them POW status ... or call them criminals and try them in a civilian court like you did with McVeigh, Manson, the WTC bombers and all other pre-9/11 terrorists in your jurisdiction. Of course you can also do neither and keep on doing what you have been doing, but don't expect anyone to believe you when you claim to be a benevolent nation that hold and protect high ideals like freedom and justice for all.

how about we find them guilty of fighting for nation that us at war with while wearing civilian clothing and shoot them? or how about we turn them back to their nation with sincere "wed really like to know what this guy was doing between -95 and -02 oh by the way did i mention the x million in food and meds is up for a vote in three months?". you are intentionally ignoring the realities of the situation. spare me the moral superiority you claim. if we werent so fediddlein humane we could easily get more information ten times as fast and gurantee the dirtbags were never heard from again and other nations would do the dirty work for us. i thought you used to be a soldier. arguing to give these guys pow status is an insult to soldiers.

[Udie]

Originally posted by GScholz
I have no problem with you shooting them as spies if that is what they were. Nor do I have a problem with you repatriating them to whatever fate they get there. I don't even have a problem with you keeping them prisoner without law or charge and doing your "long term interrogation" experiments on them ... but if you do I'll think less of you. It's as simple as that.

Well cry me a river.  They should have been executed on the battlefield.  Hopefully they still will be once we're done getting intel out of them.

[Crumpp]

Did you read my original post?  I said we held them for so long because we don't know what do to with them legally!  It was working it's way through the LEGAL system. Your blind hatred of the US caused you to post THE EXACT thing I said!!!!  MY GOD!  The US legal system was working out HOW we are going to deal with these folks.  In the end they haven't come up with the good answer many thought they would.  So the military is trying them through special tribunals.  

All in All MUCH more fair than they would get from any other country.  I highly doubt Norway would do a better job.


Go ahead and tell them what you really Think you gutless jerk..

Should I repost your US IS CRIMINAL rant?

Crumpp

[Pongo]

Originally posted by Udie
Well cry me a river.  They should have been executed on the battlefield.  Hopefully they still will be once we're done getting intel out of them.

The thread was about the greatest things that America has given the world.
All countries unfortunalty have Udies. the best we can do is to keep them sedated or put them out of their misery.
I dont hold it against the US at all.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by GScholz
I have no problem with you shooting them as spies if that is what they were. Nor do I have a problem with you repatriating them to whatever fate they get there. I don't even have a problem with you keeping them prisoner without law or charge and doing your "long term interrogation" experiments on them ... but if you do I'll think less of you. It's as simple as that.

ok you tell me. capture a guy who goes down wounded defending taliban division hq. hes from chechnya. hes wearing north face shell and pants and hitek boots not more than six months old. top shelf mountaineering gear. packing an m4 stolen from us somewhere in middle east in past three years. russians have a file on him a mile long. former chechen military. you think hes a pow? never enlisted in afghan army under taliban. not conscripted. a mercenary at best a terrorist to anyone but the blind. and you say youll think less of the nation that doesnt give him same rights as uniformed soldier or put him through legal system like a bank robber? how about the afghan fighting for muj warlord who is self described on tv as being enemy of "the great satan" and fiercely loyal to taliban and bin laden but in combat he wears the same clothes as any afghan on walking to market. only difference is rpd and a bandoleer full of ammo. are you telling me humane thing to do is turn him over to afghanis? hed be ant food in twelve hours even if he was just a rifle packer caught in events beyond his control. they are in gray area not covered by geneva convention and you expect us to err on side of "being nice". being honorable and being a sucker are not the same thing. you may think you know how your govt and military would respond to situation i dont think you know. ive worked with some of your guys and if they found one of their boys skinned alive at the camp of a bunch of "innocent chechen mountain climber tourists who happen to pack top flight comms gear and military weaponry" theyd never make it back into the light of the real world. and being a realist i wouldnt think less of them. if you live and fight in a big gray area dont expect to be shuffled of to the light when you wind up on the losing side. how about we call them spies and were just being nice and not shooting them?

[anonymous]

Originally posted by GScholz
It would be nice if you put some paragraphs in that text. Makes it a lot easier to read.

The Geneva Convention has been discussed a lot on this bbs, and I get tiered of quoting it. You do not need to have a uniform to be protected by the GC. You do not have to be part of a government army to be protected by the GC. Mercenaries, partisans, guerrillas and even civilians who take up arms against an invading army are legal combatants under the GC.

I have no illusions about the character of the men you have in custody. I do however prefer that you behave like the good guys you claim to be no matter how tempting or "poetically justified" it may be to treat them the way they deserve. If you claim to uphold the ideals of law and justice for all, then you must heed those ideals no matter how vile and despicable your enemy may be. You have your own laws and you have agreed to abide by the GC. You can ignore your own laws and break your international agreements if you like, no one can stop you, but we will think less of you.

they are not mercs or partisan or guerilla or civilian taking up arms. no different if basque separtist pay off govt of iran to allow them to run training and basing facil in iran. if someone come after them there they are not defending iran from aggression they are defending themselves from being killed or captured nothing else. treating them as they deserve would entail what i mention before. turning them over to one of many allies who would peel them like onion until they talked and sending them on their way with .45 rear aspect lobotomy. you are equating being held for questioning with mistreatment and they are not the same. you also ignore all facts that point away from your "unbiased judgement". many have been released in good health no mistreatment to go home and live in peace. it is situation that is not fully addressed by gc has never been encountered before and no one has exact idea how to resolve it but you find enough evidence to condemn us govt as criminal. do you deny the fact that if us not concerned with proper treatment of prisoners that ct work would be much easier to conduct? explain for me again exactly how you clearly see that chechen fighting in afghanistan against us instead of shaking down afghani civilian is somehow protected by gc? its like saying a bandit camp of arabs in poland is protected by gc because they happen to be in poland when they are captured.

[Gixer]

The JEEP!  




...-Gixer

[Naso]

COKE !!!

[Maniac]

Now at gitmo I have seen any hungry people as a matter of fact many of our boots on the ground have complianed about how well they eat while our people eat packaged food, they get medical,dental and religious consederation.

Haha!

The prisoners only get MRE´s, 11 year old ones too...

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Maniac
Haha!

The prisoners only get MRE´s, 11 year old ones too...

Detainees receive three culturally appropriate meals a day, one of which is an MRE (Meal, Ready to Eat). To guard against detainees fashioning "make-shift" weapons, special procedures have been put in place. Special arrangements were made with the MRE manufacturer to ensure that these MRE's would have neither cardboard packaging, heating units, accessory pack, nor candy. In addition, Military Police personnel are tasked with sanitizing each MRE, and removing toilet paper, the plastic wrapper off the spoon, a bag of spiced cider, and any additional material deemed to pose a potential threat. This includes salt, with each detainee allowed only one salt. Material given to each detainee for meals in his cell is accounted for once the meal is finished.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/guantanamo-bay_delta.htm

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