Author Topic: Outnumbered by Rooks...again  (Read 6461 times)

Offline ghostdancer

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2004, 08:53:19 AM »
As for numbers and ebb and flow .. here is an excel sheet that tracks the campaigns going all the way back to the beginning .. deaths and kills and K/D for the countries per camp.

http://www.dgideon.org/aceshigh/countries.xls

Things changed back in April roughtly. The Knits numbers for some reason took a dive. If I remember right I think a bunch of Knit squads dissolved back then and I am not sure when MAG-33 multi-squad organization stopped.

Knits then recovered briefly Jan and February but then numbers started falling off again. Actually it looks like Bishop and Knits number both fell off more than the Rooks did with the conversion to AH2.

However, the Bishops either have very strong numbers still or are very prolific flyers (i.e. flying more hops per flyer than the other countries.).
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Offline Shuckins

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2004, 08:56:54 AM »
The truce worked fairly well at evening things out.  Salute to Meddog and others who organized it.  Fights were no longer Two to one maulings.

If worked well until a handful of knights logged on who refused to cooperate with their fellow knights in honoring the truce, and attacked the Bish (Salute to the Bish who cooperated in the truce) at 22.  When asked to abide by the truce they launched into some "eff the truce" diatribes, flinging insults against Meddog and others who helped organize it.

Is there anyway to give such twerps the boot?  Anybody else want 'em?

Offline beet1e

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2004, 09:02:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Is there anyway to give such twerps the boot?  Anybody else want 'em?
Unfortunately, even the twerps have paid their $14.95 - which is all that seems to matter in this game.

Offline Zazen13

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2004, 09:02:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghostdancer
.

Knits then recovered briefly Jan and February but then numbers started falling off again. Actually it looks like Bishop and Knits number both fell off more than the Rooks did with the conversion to AH2.



Yup, exactly as I conjectured would transpire months ago during early beta for reasons of demographics. Rooks simply have the fewest financially precarious 'children' who cannot afford the hardware to make the transition to AH2. Believe this if you want to, if you do not...well that's your prerogative. ;)

Zazen
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 09:06:44 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline ghostdancer

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2004, 09:13:04 AM »
The destruction of the SE Rook troop facilities at all the bases along the noodleual and beyond by the Bishops also helped you guys.

Very hard to mount a drive when you have to fly goons from 8 sectors away.

Nice strategic thinking.
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Offline JB73

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2004, 09:19:57 AM »
i have to laugh at the numbers posted, and the talk of an RJO last night (7-25-2004)

there was not RJO... how many times did we say that on ch200

i was on for about 3-4 hours, and the peak i saw the numbers @ was 179 rooks to about 140 bish and about 110 knights.

it seems to me that more bish and knits have not made the switch to AHII, where defined squads like mine, all helped each other out to get up in AH. we didn't lose a squadmate that i am aware of because of the switch.

also as mentioned 20 times in this thread, sunday night USA primetime is "squad night" for so many rook squads i cant count.

in closing waaaaaaa wwaaaaaaaa sunday night rooks have numbers but all other nights its pretty close in numbers, i just wont mention that. wont mention that friday nights rooks are almost always outnumbered too.
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Zazen13

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2004, 09:23:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
i have to laugh at the numbers posted, and the talk of an RJO last night (7-25-2004)

there was not RJO... how many times did we say that on ch200

i was on for about 3-4 hours, and the peak i saw the numbers @ was 179 rooks to about 140 bish and about 110 knights.

it seems to me that more bish and knits have not made the switch to AHII, where defined squads like mine, all helped each other out to get up in AH. we didn't lose a squadmate that i am aware of because of the switch.

also as mentioned 20 times in this thread, sunday night USA primetime is "squad night" for so many rook squads i cant count.

in closing waaaaaaa wwaaaaaaaa sunday night rooks have numbers but all other nights its pretty close in numbers, i just wont mention that. wont mention that friday nights rooks are almost always outnumbered too.


Yea, those numbers quoted by the thread starter are totally false. I was on the entire time checking roster. The most Rooks had on was 217, while Bishops had 142 and Knights had 129. As stated, Bishops and Knights were co-operatively fighting Rooks, so even during our peek numbers this Sunday it was still 217 Rooks Vs. 271 enemy. So, in actual fact Rooks were the ones outnumbered...

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Offline ghostdancer

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2004, 09:37:11 AM »
rpm371,

Two Sundays ago when we actually did run an organized RJO (last night wasn’t organize or anyone playing ground control for the RJO squads) was chatting over this subject with several other C.O.s that I know from other countries (from FSO events).

So did some research:

http://www.dgideon.org/aceshigh/master-list-of-squads.xls

There are 491 registered squads of which 341 are actively flying in Camp 54. Of these squads there are two types of squads .. dedicated who only fly for their country and primary who mainly fly for one country but also fly a bit for other countries. Here is the break down of the squads:


82 -    Bishop Dedicated -    24.0%   
8 -    Bishop Primary -    2.3%   
96 -    Knight Dedicated -    28.2%   
16 -    Knights Primary -    4.7%   
91 -    Rook Dedicated -    26.7%   
31 -    Rook Primary -    9.1%   

Interesting enough the Knights have more dedicated squads than the Bishops or the Rooks. When you factor in primary squads then the Rooks take the lead with 122 squads to the Knights 112. The Bishops have the least amount of squads, just 90, and the least primary squads .. seems the Bishops are the most unified for flying for just their country.

Now the next interesting thing is possible pilots. Of the actively flying squads there is a total of 3880 pilots registered. Here is the country break down for them:

970 -    Bishop Dedicated -    25.0%   
86 -    Bishop Primary -    2.2%   
1040 -    Knight Dedicated -    26.8%   
199 -    Knights Primary -    5.1%   
1195 -    Rook Dedicated -    30.8%   
390 -    Rook Primary -    10.1%   

By this once again the Bishops have the least amount of pilots to pull from with just 1056 possible from their dedicated and primary squads. However, if you look at the kills and deaths for the camps you will see that Bishops either are flying a lot of hops (they are leading both the Knights and Rooks in deaths) or they fielding a larger percentage of their potential pilots than the Knights. Plus, I have started tracking arena numbers from 9 – 10 pm EDT and several times the Bishops are equal to the Rooks or actually have more.

Seeming to indicate that the Bishop squads are definitely motivating their pilots to turn out and play. Especially in the light they have the smallest pool or pilots and squads to draw from.

The Knits on the other hand have 112 squads (96  of these dedicated) and a possible pilot pool of 1239. However, they are consistently fielding the least amount of pilots even though they have most dedicated squads, the 2nd most dedicate and primary squads, and the 2nd most possible pilots.

The reason for this we can only guess at. Although as I said a couple main motivating squads on the Knits side about 1 year to 9 months ago dissolved and MAG-33 multi-squad went defunct. I don’t fly Knits so I have no idea what it is like flying over there .. organized, not organized, fun, grumpy, etc.

The Rooks on the other hand have 2nd most dedicated squads, 91 that field 1195 possible pilots to the Knights 1045 possible pilots for 96 dedicated squads. Meaning I think you have larger squads (who are usually more successful of keeping their pilots engaged in the game and turning out) on the Rook side.

But when you factor in the primary squads (those who fly for Rooks and bit for others) then you have see a big discrepancy. Rooks now have possible total of 1585 pilots to pull from.

I would guess since Sunday is becoming known as RJO day (even when its not) that many of these primary swing squads end up flying for Rooks on that day. Which is why you see a spike on Sundays and then the numbers different on other days (Mondays seem to be a favorite Bishop day).

A couple squads switching will help but I am not sure by how much.

HiTech putting into the code a new variable that does not allow people to switch countries to the country with the highest numbers I think will help also. Will prevent independents and primary squads from switching from one country to a country that numbers start to increase.

However, there is only so much HiTech can do since basically everyone really wants the ability to fly for the country, the squad, and the people they want to fly with. So can only go so far with programming solutions.

I know that others have also said BS when I brought up country’s culture or environment but I do think that plays a factor and that concerted work by a bunch of squads to make their country more attractive to fly too has made a difference (Rooks went from around 50 dedicated squads 2+ years ago to 91 now) to attracting and keeping squads and independents.

More than willing to talk about this with anyone and how I think the Rooks got out of the bucket.

P.S. The excel sheet has the Army of Muppets as Rooks Primary .. they are actually now a Knights Primary squad. But it takes me two days to go through all the squads numbers .. so I don't do it often.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 09:40:01 AM by ghostdancer »
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Offline wrag

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2004, 09:48:46 AM »
I was on when the Rook numbers jumped way up and they hit A48 big time.  Fought there and managed to rtb to A1 with 3 kills but could see from the numbers that A48 was gone.

Right aftert A48 got taken went up from A1 with a squaddie and jumped a bunch of Rook's coming outa A50 and fought with em all the way to A43.  Got lucky and again landed 3 kills.

Reupped from A1 with an added squaddie (3 of us now) and went hunting again and jumped a flight of about 6 or 7 P38's low and inb A43 from A50.  Was great fight but got shot down this time LOL.  Got em all to drop their ord and furball with us.  Think we managed to get 4 of em.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 09:53:49 AM by wrag »
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Offline ghostdancer

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2004, 09:48:58 AM »
Agreed with Overlag that big maps would make things more challenging. And you are right RJO has reset the MA several times in 2 hours and most times in 3 hours. Although the BJO and country truce has made it much more difficult now .. took 5.5 hours for the first official RJO to do so 2 sundays ago (only run one RJO in AH2 so far).

Small maps only work in the defense if you have a very small front to cover and are able to have the bulk of your pilots defending that small front. I don't think the NW position on Mindano has ever been reset. But if you are getting slammed on two fronts well .. its rough.

But big maps give maneuvering room for flank attacks and allow the smaller country to pick where to concentrate. Allowing them to gain air superiority in select spots while the large country is spread out over a large front.

This was the case in the Russian theater in WW2. The germans in 1943-1944 could win air superiority over certain areas but not the whole front. But it slowed down the Russians as the Russians had to pull forces from other areas to re-win air superiority over a specific front.

So a constant flanking attacks can make things very lively.

As for numbers Bishops are doing a good job motivating their pilots and developing tactics to deal with the situation. But you are right you have a smaller pool of squads and pilots to pull from. Although you are still fielding more than the Knights.

Spreading squad nights out over friday, saturday and sunday will help and running RJOs on other days will help also even numbers more out. Although I think sunday will always be a high number day for Rooks.

Plus, the FSO (Friday Squad Ops) event in the SEA starting up again will pull Rooks their instead of the MA on fridays.

Big problem is that Knights are not pulling a high percentage of their possible numbers.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 09:51:21 AM by ghostdancer »
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Offline Zazen13

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2004, 09:54:05 AM »
That's great stuff GD! Collect those statistics again after school starts back up for Bishops. The Bishop teens are out of school right now and are logging 100+ hours a tour. Do this again after the September camp, you'll see what I mean. I have done a sampling of hours played by people I see in-game alot for all countries at all times of day and night, there's some crazy hour's played numbers on Bishops during the summer! ;)

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Offline Zazen13

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2004, 10:00:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghostdancer

But big maps give maneuvering room for flank attacks and allow the smaller country to pick where to concentrate. Allowing them to gain air superiority in select spots while the large country is spread out over a large front.



Yes, this is exactly what makes Big Maps suck, there is a gang bang by one country in one spot, and the other country in another, 15 sectors away and very rarely any even, pitched battles as we see on the smaller maps. There are few if any choke points or strategically valuable places on large maps unless very close to an HQ, therefore no impetus to mount a static defense/offense. So, the front tends to wander around the map where there is the 'least' amount of enemy resistance . It's a case of gang-bang and vulch or be gang-banged and vulched. With more geographic options than players to cover them there's always undefended areas to run to and avoid real fighting altogether.

Zazen
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 10:08:23 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Cooley

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2004, 10:11:51 AM »
The "Battle of Davao Gulf" went on for hours and was fun,
I dont know how you Rooks ever took 31, as we had troops ded 3 sectors back I think. whoever it was deserves many Wtg's, he musta flown a 100 miles.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 10:18:57 AM by Cooley »
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Offline SlapShot

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2004, 10:11:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
Yes, this is exactly what makes Big Maps suck, there is a gang bang by one country in one spot, and the other country in another, 15 sectors away and very rarely any even, pitched battles as we see on the smaller maps. There are few if any choke points or strategically valuable places on large maps unless very close to an HQ, so no impetus to mount a static defense/offense. So, the front tends to wander around the map where there is the 'least' amount of enemy resistance . It's a case of gang-bang and vulch or be gang-banged and vulched. With more geographic options than players to cover them there's always undefended areas to run to and avoid real fighting altogether.

Zazen


Then, on the other hand ...

On large maps, our squad (3-5 on at a time) can fly to a section on a big map that is not overwhelmed by the horde and "piss in the pool" of the enemy and see if we can stir up people into fighting.

It works quite well and we usually end up with decent fights for a considerable length of time.

Whereas, on the smaller maps, with their very small front, this is much harder, because the horde is also concentrated within the small front.

I prefer the larger maps due to the variety that is available. You can fight against the horde ... or travel with the horde ... or go and "piss in the pool". On smaller maps, it only seems as though you can either fight the horde ... or travel with the horde.

YMMV
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Offline peregrin

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Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2004, 10:14:16 AM »
Quote

Bish Kills: 114,582
Bish Deaths: 134,406

Knights Kills: 119,102
Knight Deaths: 123,441

Rook Kills: 144,826
Rook Deaths: 120,600


Kills and deaths don't tell you anything about the numbers of players.  If country a outnumbers country b 10:1, then the number of kills they get is limited by the small number of targets, so you always expect to see these numbers nearly even.  The fact that the rooks have a higher kill:death ratio hints that they may have an unfair advantage, but doesn't tell you how many rooks are online.
--Peregrine.