Author Topic: AI 88's  (Read 5915 times)

storch

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AI 88's
« Reply #90 on: October 31, 2004, 06:08:03 AM »
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #91 on: October 31, 2004, 09:32:03 AM »
furball,

Your experiment confirms one I did myself a while ago... That was one of the triggers that made me take a break from AH (complaining about it on the BBS was part of what got me banned) and it's still one of the (IMHO) few parts of the game that need some big changes.  At the very least, there should be a lag in aiming equal to the shell's time of flight, and in practice there are several delays.  Here's a simple list of things that go into the system in RL...

You maneuver
They detect your maneuver
They watch you long enough to determine your new flight parameters
They input your new heading, alt, and speed into their director computer (mechanical slide-rule stuff)
The computer operator jiggles his slide rule computer around and comes up with a new azimuth, elevation, and fuze delay
The loader sets the new fuze delay into the shell (even prox fuzes have a self-destruct timer)
The loader puts the shell into the gun
The gunner pulls the trigger
The shell flies out and explodes one time-of-flight later

Add up all those delay times and if you haven't maneuvered away from the parameters (speed, heading, and altitude) they entered into their gun director computer, the shell will get pretty close.  If you have maneuvered more than a few hundred feet or 5 degrees or so in heading in that TOF though, it's going to miss.  This is somewhat compensated for by salvo firing and an inherent shotgun-pattern to multiple shells fired by multiple guns, but that will either spread the pattern out very widely or cause a shotgun effect that is still where you would have been had you not maneuvered.  A flak battery that can follow a zooming me163 apparently doesn't have to contend with the real world's 4th dimension, ie. time.

A bomber will have a tough time maneuvering against heavy ack due to relatively slow speeds and slow turn rates, plus in WWII and other wars the volume of ack was simply much greater than what is modelled in AH.  But your experiment shows that the SYSTEM behind heavy ack simply isn't modelled, or it's modelled in an unrealistic fashion for some reason.  Maybe the intent is to do it right but it's broken right now, who knows.

The ack rarely intrudes into gameplay right now except as an annoyance, but when it does it just highlights how it's not at all realistic.  I'm very glad that light AAA has some lag in it and maneuvers work pretty well against that stuff unless you get too close.

--edited to alter complaint/comment ratio and hopefully keep my post from getting deleted or me getting banned again :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2004, 10:36:36 AM by eagl »
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Offline Furball

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AI 88's
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2004, 10:35:17 AM »
oh i just had a new one.

Defending cv in F4U1-C. kill a b17. FRIENDLY puffy ack takes my wing off.

What use is this ack ? defend the base? how the hell is it defending the base if it shoots down the defenders??

last 2 days been a nightmare for bugs/ack :mad: :(
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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2004, 06:14:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
oh i just had a new one.

Defending cv in F4U1-C. kill a b17. FRIENDLY puffy ack takes my wing off.

What use is this ack ? defend the base? how the hell is it defending the base if it shoots down the defenders??

last 2 days been a nightmare for bugs/ack :mad: :(


im sick of this still nothing has changed

could HTC at least say they are looking into it?
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Offline MANDO

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« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2004, 05:28:05 AM »
Long range ack should be focused on buff formations (or deleted), and never manned. Manned heavy ack is much more frustrating than anything else. Due graphic settings you may be kilt 10 times by player XYZ while you are still unable to even see the CV group. Furballs near CVs are a total frustration.

Offline Leayme

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« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2004, 12:12:21 PM »
I want to see more AA/AAA on the levels of WWII.

Anyone see Battlefield footage of the AA/AAA barrages from both fleets and ground defences? The fact that anyone could fly thru it relatively untouched is still pretty amazing.

262's getting downed by AAA is not surprising, since in relative terms the 262 is a delicate piece of machinery and you have the golden BB factor to worry about.

Fighters compared to bombers is like comparing a race car to a highway tractor trailer unit. What would destroy a race car will cause significantly less damage on the highway tractor. B17's coming back with most of the tail section blown off, holes in the fuelselage that you could almost fly a plane thru (and maybe someone did :D ) Damage of this kind inflicted on a fighter plane, will be terminal.

No AI flak at fields? I think that when the manned flak is not being manned, the AI should be able to employ it, switching to manned when someone jumps in it.

They should employ a more realistic tracking model, but getting rid of the AI Flak would result in a serious degridation in game play. Undefended fields would be literally steam rolled, since the lack of AI would mean that players would have to sit in manned AA/AAA in front line positions on the off chance that an attack is imminent and all the enemy would need to do is fly one plane NOE and currently airborne players (who also like to man AA/AAA) would be stuck between choosing to continue on thier mission or drop it and return to man a gun for a possible attack, just to find that the enemy has already killed all the unmanned guns and GV hangers or that it was a ruse.

Not, something I would be interested in coming back to , in my opinion and I imagine it is also something that has been revealed by the marketing team, that I am sure HT has employed, to determine the trends and the direction AH 2 is headed.

I hope to get back in the saddle soon (time/funds/computer allowing) but, would think long and hard with my spare cash, if AH2 devolves futher into a video game versus a WWII type simulation.

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2004, 12:30:22 PM »
Leayme, so you pay to be shot down by ack at 5 miles away?

I would be happy doubling the light and medium cal ack at fields and putting heavy ack only near strat target. And no heavy manned ack at all, not even at CVs.

Offline moot

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« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2004, 12:36:30 PM »
Don't have time to read the thread, but from the glance at Pukeball's screenshots it looks like he's saying at least what I'd say:

The shells are annoying because they do not follow the laws of physics, they instantly appear inside a random dispersion sphere centered on your position in the gameworld, rather than TRAVEL the distance between the gun and their destination.

Perfect-aim AI manned ack is ok, but if we are playing a wwii sim, HT, please correct this flaw.
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Offline Leayme

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« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2004, 12:51:20 PM »
I flew bombers and JABOs as well as ran around on the ground with the GV contingents and I cannot think of one time where I was shot down by the AI heavy ack, was pinged and had minor damage and the manned 5 inchers on the CV seemed to have my name and number most of the time, but it kept me on my toes and altered my approach to a target.

What can I say to those who seem to be ack magnets, check and see what you can do different, fly lower and go after the AI manned guns is a possibility, plan your routes around flak nests, it is a fact of the game that something unseen or overlooked can and will kill you if given the chance.

Don't intend to offend, but one must overcome and adapt and if that means not chasing a kill into a flak zone and letting a wounded bird make a landing (taking away your kill), then that is what you might have to begin to think about, you may not like it, but, I have been shot up enough that running for the Flak was my only chance of survival and the AI flak and manned guns shredded my pursuer.

So, yes, you might say that I pay for the possibility to get shot down by AI ack five miles away as well as the fighter 200 yards away.

Offline Waffle

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« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2004, 12:55:51 PM »
Waffle does skins, Waffle does sounds...Waffles doesn't whine (too much) - Waffle doesn't get hit by puffy ack. :) Connection?

Offline mechanic

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« Reply #100 on: December 05, 2004, 01:14:21 PM »
so Waffle, if someone were to buy a certain scotch for a certain person, could that someone reduce their ack magnetism?
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Offline MANDO

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« Reply #101 on: December 05, 2004, 01:35:17 PM »
Leayme, you seems to forget that this is a game, and most players have limited free time to enjoy it (we do not live for the simulated war, as real pilots did). When you have 20 mins for a pair of flights, and each one you are puffed ...

Offline Leayme

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« Reply #102 on: December 05, 2004, 02:41:04 PM »
MANDO, I did not forget or overlook the fact that this is a game and I like alot of others have limited time slots to play.

I have been shot down repeatedly by nme flyers when all I had was a mere 30 minutes in which to play and while it was a tad bit frustrating, it is a factor of the game. I did not ask for the game to be changed because of it.

When on the ground I have been killed by GV's that I could not even see, they were so far away, but I did not complain about it, I moved and looked for them or came back in a plane and tried to bomb them out of existence, instead of spawning again to be killed again.

I don't mean to be offensive or insensitive, but this is a realistic (and still try and cater to all types of players) WWII style sim, with many of the hazards that were part and parcel of real war and yes it is unfortunate that you were downed before you even had a chance to accomplish ....whatever..... you set out to do, but it is part and parcel of the game and I for one and I imagine others as well, would not find it as half as exciting/challenging if the random chance elements were eleminated, such as the AI AAA, 1000 yard hits with a cannon equipped plane on a bomber formation,  1 hit kills on tigers with a shot from a panzer or multiple gv kills with a 1800KG bunker buster under the trees.

All of which can be extremely frustrating to players on the day it happens, but they don't seem to have a problem when random chance rolls the dice in thier favor :D

I try and take the random chance element in stride and adapt as best as I can to overcome them.

I know its not what you want to hear and while I can sympathise, if I can adapt to a changing evolving game play, so can you.

Offline Waffle

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« Reply #103 on: December 05, 2004, 02:50:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
so Waffle, if someone were to buy a certain scotch for a certain person, could that someone reduce their ack magnetism?



I don't know about that, BUT I can make you a custom soundpack, so that when you  hear an ack burst near you, you hear "move! idiot!" before ya get hit :)

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #104 on: December 05, 2004, 04:59:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Leayme
I have been shot down repeatedly by nme flyers when all I had was a mere 30 minutes in which to play and while it was a tad bit frustrating, it is a factor of the game. I did not ask for the game to be changed because of it.


You were, at least, fighting those flyers and having some fun, even being shotdown. Your example has nothing in common with random puffy ack killing you, or a snipper behind a big gun at a CV that you cant even see.

It is like a group of players fighting in airplanes, and a single one several miles away at the control of a SAM site with infinite missiles and ruinning the fun of everyone with a single click on a button.