Author Topic: What is the greatest thing that America has given the world.  (Read 4207 times)

Offline Crumpp

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What is the greatest thing that America has given the world.
« Reply #135 on: July 26, 2004, 11:14:35 PM »
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provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.


Key phrase.


Quote
(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.


Does not apply once the Army has passed.  They have too upon encountering an invading army "spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces". Additionally they must "carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war."

These terrorist do niether. Therefore they are NOT afforded POW status but fall under Article 4 and must be:

Quote
Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.



Tried by a tribunal to determine their status.  Which is happening NOW.  Once the courts decided who should conduct the trials.

Crumpp

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #136 on: July 26, 2004, 11:16:54 PM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GScholz
Go ahead and quote me on anything you like. IMHO the US government is criminal in its actions. Not a damn thing I can do about it, but I do think less of them for it.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #137 on: July 26, 2004, 11:36:32 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz

"such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined"

Thank you for making my point. [/B]


So your point is... that... you agree with how Gitmo has been run so far? But you are still pissed off about it?  :confused:
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #138 on: July 26, 2004, 11:54:47 PM »
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"such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined"


Your being pretty dense.  EVERYONE has status under the Geneva Convention.  There is no such thing as NOT being covered by it.  The rights you have though change based on were you fall in the treaty.

You want to argue that these terrorists are POW's.  They do NOT fit the legal definition that is spelled out IN BLACK AND WHITE.  They are civilians who can be legally detained for committing CRIMES.  The Geneva Convention affords them protection as "protected persons in custody".  They are entitled to two trials.  

1.  To determine their status within the convention.  They get the chance to prove they are a LEGAL combatant.

If the court rules they are Legal Combatants THEN they are afforded POW status.  

2.  If not then they can be tried as Criminals, which becomes their second trial and can even be executed as saboteurs.  All IAW the Geneva Convention.  

You should really learn what you are talking about before you start yapping.

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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #139 on: July 26, 2004, 11:56:06 PM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GScholz
Go ahead and quote me on anything you like. IMHO the US government is criminal in its actions. Not a damn thing I can do about it, but I do think less of them for it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline demaw1

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« Reply #140 on: July 27, 2004, 12:00:20 AM »
Scholz  re:   g.v. and napoleonic empires.

    I affirm you have some knowledge [ maybe a lot] of the napoleonic empire,nevertheless, that doesnt mean I dont know what I am talking about.Perhaps if you were to read john englund and others[authors and historians] you may find some interesting parallels to the first empire and now. Mr. englund last year had the 2 foremost british and french historians to his home for dinner and to discuss this very topic and more so napoleon .
  I was fortunate to hear a lot of his lecture.I can not go into it as time and post would not permit .As of yet I dont have enough knowledge of the subject but understand the jist of it.
 I could see you were from norway, never said you were french, and the use of you all and you was generic. The bottom line is you are over there ,what happens with the e.u. will affect you,how anyone can trust the french and germans with this endevour I dont know. As I said when the time comes you will bow to them or else, like it or not. Sir with respect only a dodo bird would not be able to see in the end france and germany will do what is best for them.Witness the billions stolen from iraq with help from u.n....so be it.

   g.v. forget it dont care any longer.

Offline JB73

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« Reply #141 on: July 27, 2004, 12:03:55 AM »
GS ... sometimes bro i wish you'd lay off the politics / bashing of the USA policies.


you know what i stand for, and what i think of yourself. sometimes, it just get's too dmn heated in here and people say hurtful things for effect.

respect is something someone earns, yuo have fought in the UN collitation.

i have done "nothing"

i dont expect respect, but at the same time, am sometimes hurt by the generalzations you say. you know and i know that the collalition you fought under has different agendas now, and has a much more solid leader from the USA. i would hope you dont take the experiances you had under a pinko soft leader in the US to heart, and can see past the past faults / indescressions.

a much harder stance / position is now called for under the current administration, and i stand by it fully, and whole heartedly.

if you do not feel the current adminstration is working dilligently, and soundly for a better good, please be consise.


also please dont forget, we are working against a group that doesn't adhere to, or believe in our "standards of justice" there are matters that require due dilligence in "teaching" them how strongly we feel about a situation. if "resorting" to some of their "tactics" gets the message through, so be it. i would hope to think many americans feel the same about it, and pray other nations would see the reasons for actions thusly.


the pure fact i have not and will not read this whole thread may cause you hesitation. i have only looked at snippits of quotes from yuorself, and some others, myself gathering a generalized idea of what is actually transpiring here.

i onyl ask that you reconsider your thoughts on what i stated before on the current administration, ESPECIALLY in relation to the past administration, and it;s policies. (wich you have more knowledge and experiance than i will ever truly know).

<> sir, im drunk and asking for a cease fire
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline demaw1

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« Reply #142 on: July 27, 2004, 12:09:14 AM »
OK fine......
   

     327 chevy fuel injected v8

Offline wklink

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« Reply #143 on: July 27, 2004, 01:14:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
I can't believe I've been so busy as to miss the civil wars,
death squads and child prostitutes.  I guess working a full time
job makes it easy to miss those kinda things.

     Maybe you should duck next time a low bridge comes around.



You know, I was just talking to my buds in our death squad this week about how many child prostitutes were going to get from our next civil war.

Gotta love being a US Army Officer.  I mean, death squadding by day, banging child prostitutes at night.  I mean, what a great life.  Until GS let you all know about it of course.

The only problem is it has seriously cut into my online flying time.  I mean, between the mass grave shootings and the burkha orgies I rarely have time to get off the ground.

:rolleyes:
« Last Edit: July 27, 2004, 01:16:46 AM by wklink »
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #144 on: July 27, 2004, 01:31:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
1. They have not been afforded the rights of POWs under the GC for the last two years, and still don't.
 


White house policy says:

Even though the detainees are not entitled to POW privileges, they will be provided many POW privileges as a matter of policy.
All detainees at Guantanamo are being provided:

-three meals a day that meet Muslim dietary laws
-water
-medical care
-clothing and shoes
-shelter
-showers
-soap and toilet articles
-foam sleeping pads and blankets
-towels and washcloths
-the opportunity to worship
-correspondence materials, and the means to send mail
the ability to receive packages of food and clothing, subject to security screening
 
POW Privileges the Detainees will not receive  

The detainees will receive much of the treatment normally afforded to POWs by the Third Geneva Convention.  However, the detainees will not receive some of the specific privileges afforded to POWs, including:

-access to a canteen to purchase food, soap, and tobacco
-a monthly advance of pay
-the ability to have and consult personal financial accounts
-the ability to receive scientific equipment, musical instruments, or sports outfits
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Offline Staga

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« Reply #145 on: July 27, 2004, 05:24:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wklink
You know, I was just talking to my buds in our death squad this week about how many child prostitutes were going to get from our next civil war.

Gotta love being a US Army Officer.  I mean, death squadding by day, banging child prostitutes at night.  I mean, what a great life.  Until GS let you all know about it of course.

The only problem is it has seriously cut into my online flying time.  I mean, between the mass grave shootings and the burkha orgies I rarely have time to get off the ground.

:rolleyes:


Heh another one who missed the train...

tip: Europe is consisted of sovereign countries beginning from Portugal in West and ending at Russia in East.
Just like America is consisted from Argentina in South and Canada in up North.
Also countries like Chile, El Salvador, Colombia and Chile are American countries.... got the point now?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #146 on: July 27, 2004, 08:01:30 AM »
so how many damn norwegen prisoners do we have in gitmo anyway?

If one of em is schlotz's cousin or something... let him go for the love of gawd.

lazs

Offline wklink

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« Reply #147 on: July 27, 2004, 10:58:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Heh another one who missed the train...

tip: Europe is consisted of sovereign countries beginning from Portugal in West and ending at Russia in East.
Just like America is consisted from Argentina in South and Canada in up North.
Also countries like Chile, El Salvador, Colombia and Chile are American countries.... got the point now?



Bullsnit.

GS knew exactly what he was saying.  When you say 'America' you aren't talking about the continent.  It is pretty much a given that when you talk about 'America' you are referring to the US.   When immigrants talk about coming to America thay aren't talking about coming to Costa Rica.

When we talk about Europeans in general we can say Europe.  There is no double meaning with Europe.  There is no country that one person thinks of first when you say Europe.  When you think of America you think the US right off the bat.  It's been the unofficial nickname of the US since it was coined (by European immigrants btw) a couple centuries ago.  

Don't think I am that stupid.  I know GS wasn't talking about Brazil when he made that comment.  And if he did, his 'inference' is misleading and stupid.  It would be like saying Europe when I meant Russia.  Its a crap statement and GS knew exactly what he was saying.  It would be like saying Africa when you mean South Africa.  

When I think of the friends sitting in Bosnia right now to help stop that 'civil war' then hear GS's statement I get upset.  OK.

Don't feed me a line of drivel, GS knows exactly what he said.  Sorry, running late, have a 10 ocklock Child Prostetute sell off on E-bay right now.
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #148 on: July 27, 2004, 11:14:47 PM »
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"Present Convention" i.e. Convention III, relative to the protection of POWs. You know this.



They are NOT entitled to POW status.  I have posted the article they are covered under and YOU posted the article covering POW's.  I showed you exactly the clauses which cause them NOT to meet POW status.

They are "protected persons in custody".  Not the same as a POW under the convention at all.

Crumpp

Offline Staga

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« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2004, 04:18:30 AM »
Are you going to keep them in "custody" for next 20 years or what?

How do you call a country which keeps persons in concentration camps without giving them possibility to be heard in the court?
I know many designations for a country like that but modern and lawful are not amongst them.