Aces HIgh II: 1st Camp After Action Report

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Actually, my broad stroke has data that corroborates it. Your broad stroke is supported by data that contradicts it.

Zazen

But my data had the challenge to kick yer lame arse. Now is good for me.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by rod367th
heres best story of beefing up score catching. I up from a base that flashed for a second, think noe since its no where near enemy base. A set of bombers up ask where hes going he says don't know yet. Next thing hes taking off agin 2 mins later as i'm searching for noe inbound. I spot low dot turn towards it. Over the Radio Coms hey leave the p40 alone he's mine. I said okay have at it. guy takes bombers right to p40 all 3 disappear in seconds. p40 turns and starts to run away. I couldn't catch it since i was in a 110 got close enough to see it was p40. i go back land. guy flying bombers has logged, And on text buffer comes ********** 25kills p40. I go check his squad p40 guy, and find out bomber pilot was in same squad lol. Now I get the he's all mine.

Sheesh!  Post the film for pete's sake. That thread may not beat out the voss=metatron thread but the stripper thread may be in jeopardy

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by RTR

And Zazen, I kind of see where you are trying to go with this, and realize that you aren't deliberately trying to alienate the 3 countries. However, I still disagree wholeheartedly with your assumptions, simply because there are way to many variables to formulate an informed opinion on something like this.



RTR

Yes, I am not trying to say Rooks are Gods and Bishops are toads or anything of the sort. What I am showing, and kill totals alone over the past 3 years prove this. Is that a countries' overall 'effectiveness'/success/kill-rate is not in any way, shape or form a factor of numbers in the MA at prime-time or any other time. The kill totals and K/Ds are almost identical for each country respectively from the beginning of AH to the present while the numbers of players on each country has fluctuated greatly during the same period.

My point is, numbers and country performance have not one thing to do with one another from a statistical point-of-view. The ability of any one team to aquire kills is a result of other factors, not raw numbers of players. I will leave it up to you guys to conjecture as to what those other factors may be.

Zazen

[SlapShot]

You call it comraderie, but what it really is, is superior tactics.

Again ... I have to disagree.

From my observations, the only real "superior" thing that the Rooks have over the other countries is their willingness to help.

This goes a long way toward maintaining a very good K/D country-wide. The more pilots help other pilots get out of a jam and land their kills, results in good K/D averages.

The Rooks flying abilites are really no more superior than those that I have observed in the other countries.

I have been helped by Rooks who couldn't find their arnoldes with both hands when it comes to flying, but they were willing to drop in and attempt a clear and in most cases, caused the enemy to hesitate and/or change direction, which would lead to a kill for me in most instances ... and also the change to land my kills.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by SlapShot
You call it comraderie, but what it really is, is superior tactics.

Again ... I have to disagree.

From my observations, the only real "superior" thing that the Rooks have over the other countries is their willingness to help.

 

Willingness to help = superior tactics.

Superior tactics and flying skill don't necessarily have anything to do with one another. Superior tactics is defined as: deploying one's aircraft in a manner that is most conducive to providing you or a wingman with a killing opportunity while at the same time depriving the enemy of a killing opportunity. By definition, superior tactics does not necessarily require superior flying skill, just superior timing, positioning, and awareness.

I have known many fabulous sticks over the years, people who could out-fly a hummingbird in a pick-up truck. But, they had no tactical sense whatsoever. The result was alot of dying and very little killing for them. Although they were fabulous in terms of flying skill I never even considered them when assaying the local tactical scene because I knew they would not be doing the right thing, at the right time, at the right place and by no fault of their own, they were just completely 'unaware' tactically. People like that tend to be superstars of the DA and hapless victims in the MA.


Zazen

[Stang]

I'll duel ya X2Lee.  

[Hyrax81st]

As Mark Twain said...

"There's three kinds of lies... Lies, Damn Lies,... and statistics."

I think the superior K/D of Rooks may have something to do with the stinkin' Rook vulchers who never help us GOOD Rooks take bases. Then just as the goon shows up to drop on the town - they fly back "RTB --- outta ammo" and land 12 vulch kills leaving the goon to get filet'd ...

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Hyrax81st
As Mark Twain said...

"There's three kinds of lies... Lies, Damn Lies,... and statistics."

I think the superior K/D of Rooks may have something to do with the stinkin' Rook vulchers who never help us GOOD Rooks take bases. Then just as the goon shows up to drop on the town - they fly back "RTB --- outta ammo" and land 12 vulch kills leaving the goon to get filet'd ...

That must be true! I never, ever see Bishops or Knights vulching!!

Zazen:aok

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by Stang
I'll duel ya X2Lee.  

I never turn down a good fight Stang.

[mars01]

Zazen your weenie side is blazing through buddy.  I would like to see the kills per time included in your stats.  K/d does not tell the story.  

My observations and summary on the Rooks effectiveness is due to their teamwork and their camaraderie. Rooks, for the most part, cover each other better than any country that I have flown with.

Slap is right the rooks for the most part ask before they come screaming down and steal your kill.  Many times I had guys string out an enemy on their 6 and let myself or whoever get the kill rather than reverse and make the situation bad for all of us.  They were fun to fly with.

I would surmise that when the Rooks were in the bucket getting slammed day in and day out, and when they decided to do something about it (RJO), they created a country wide bond that still holds them together to this very day.

This might be part of it, but I would like to see the number of rooks that were rooks when they were outnumbered VS today.  I personally think it has more to do with the number supremacy rather than some special bond they have.  I say this because as the evenings wore on, as a rook, and the number advantage shifted away from the rooks, all the things mentioned did not happen as often or if at all.  There were many times when I was a rook that I wondered why there were not as many check sixes as at other times or why it didn't seem like they were working as well together, then I would check the numbers and realize we were out numbered.

I also noticed that this behavior was not only special on the rooks side.  On both Knights and Bish the check sixes would fly when we had numerical supremacy.

It easy to throw check sixes all over the place when you have a numerical advantage.  It is much harder when you are outnumbered because you are so busy watching your own six.

After our whirl wind tour of Rooks and Bish I have to say there are some great sticks in all the countries, there are runners and weenies in all the countries, and every country has its fair share of Major Nelsons.

I do think the Rooks have better general etiquette, but I would in no way classify them as any more superior than the other country.  For most of us, we know the numbers do not represent a clear picture and conclusions drawn against them are fouled by the meaninglessness of what they represent.  Then numbers leave out many things that would create a more realistic comparison, such as weights for numerical advantages or disadvantages or weights for how dangerouse a sortie is (Upping from a capped Base etc.)

[Adogg]

This a magnificant example of a post full of sound and fury, signifying...nout, nothing, nadda, rien, niente.

Zazen gets the Award for most conspicous wastage of BBS bandwidth.  

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Adogg
This a magnificant example of a post full of sound and fury, signifying...nout, nothing, nadda, rien, niente.

Zazen gets the Award for most conspicous wastage of BBS bandwidth.  

Yea, ok, guilty as charged, but at least it promotes interesting discussions which is more than I can say for most of the threads started here.

Zazen:aok

[Zazen13]

I also noticed that this behavior was not only special on the rooks side.  On both Knights and Bish the check sixes would fly when we had numerical supremacy.

It easy to throw check sixes all over the place when you have a numerical advantage.  It is much harder when you are outnumbered because you are so busy watching your own six.

 [/B]

Interesting observations from your limited time as Rooks, but if you are agreeing with Slappy that Rooks' teamwork explains the statistics there's a problem. Rooks had exactly the same statistics even when they were hugely outnumbered 24/7 by hordes of Bishops.

Obviously, Check6'ing is harder when outnumbered, for everyone, as you often have to mauever your plane to 'aim' the check 6, this is not always practical while heavily engaged. But, the overall mutually supportive team-play is omnipresent on Rooks regardless of waning numbers both historically and in the present. In fact, I contend that as numbers dwindle the mutually supportive teamplay on Rooks actually improves as the individual need for organized tactics is required to maintain survivability.

Zazen

[Shane]

Originally posted by Zazen13
I have known many fabulous sticks over the years, people who could out-fly a hummingbird in a pick-up truck. But, they had no tactical sense whatsoever. The result was alot of dying and very little killing for them. Although they were fabulous in terms of flying skill I never even considered them when assaying the local tactical scene because I knew they would not be doing the right thing, at the right time, at the right place and by no fault of their own, they were just completely 'unaware' tactically. People like that tend to be superstars of the DA and hapless victims in the MA.

Zazen

name 3 DA "superstars" who are "tactically unaware hapless victims" in MA.

[Furious]

None of those numbers take into account fun.

Is the dweeb with a .36 to 1 K/D ratio having fun?  If yes HE WINS!!

Is the dweeb with a 13 to 1 K/D ratio having fun?  If yes HE WINS!!

...if you are having fun you win, no matter what numbers get posted.