Author Topic: The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing  (Read 1361 times)

Offline SlapShot

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2004, 02:48:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
Well Ive seen guys in spits firning on a La7 at 600 away or better and losing ground, and Ive dove down to get on the la7 only to have the guy in the spit tell me to stay out of his guns.

   To me he should have been the one to have stopped firing...but he'd insist I was at fault. Oh well..if folks are happy with it whatever. But how about getting a toggle for Range so I dont have to hear it?


The Spit will ping at 600 and I would bet that he is hoping to induce the La-7 to turn ... at that point the La is dead and he should rightfully be able to finish off the fight.

I have had guys ask me if I need help and if I feel that the La is pulling away, I will give them the go ahead. At least they had the courtesy to ask. I in turn do the same thing ... If I am higher, I will ask if they need help before I will drop in on the party.
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Offline mars01

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2004, 02:50:13 PM »
I agree Dipstick,

There is a definite ediquet and asking before you steal is one thing that seperates the good from the bad and the noobs.

What do you if you ask, get no response, fly away or take it away?

Offline mars01

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2004, 02:51:44 PM »
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I have had guys ask me if I need help and if I feel that the La is pulling away, I will give them the go ahead. At least they had the courtesy to ask. I in turn do the same thing ... If I am higher, I will ask if they need help before I will drop in on the party.
I agree if the person is getting out run they are out of the fight and the kill is open.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2004, 02:52:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
Well Ive seen guys in spits firning on a La7 at 600 away or better and losing ground, and Ive dove down to get on the la7 only to have the guy in the spit tell me to stay out of his guns.

   To me he should have been the one to have stopped firing...but he'd insist I was at fault. Oh well..if folks are happy with it whatever. But how about getting a toggle for Range so I dont have to hear it?


Well, in that you did dive into his line of fire, he has a point. In that case maintain positional advantage on the enemy but stay out of the line of fire. I've scored hits @ 1K and made the enemy reverse (if he's just running straight and level for speed, I can often hit him at 1K+). I do this when it appears that no one is gaining on him. But you can't always see the guy screaming in from WAY above and behind you with 550kias.

Don't get me wrong, from a tactical standpoint you had the shot, and the other guy was wrong to waste the ammo and keep you out.

Next time, let him waste his ammunition, and let the enemy reverse and kill him, then kill the enemy after he has sacrificed his advantages to get the kill.

All it takes is a LITTLE communication. It would help a great deal if the guys zooming in just called the shot first. (Good use for range channel by the way). It really ain't that hard.
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Offline DipStick

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2004, 02:57:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mars01
I agree Dipstick,

There is a definite ediquet and asking before you steal is one thing that seperates the good from the bad and the noobs.

What do you if you ask, get no response, fly away or take it away?

If I have alt and get no response I usually jump in if it looks close and no nmes are in the immediate area. I figure if he doesn't respond he's either too busy and worried about getting shot down or needs to get a mike.

I don't vulch (much) as I don't find it a challenge and I don't participate in conga lines either. Even if I engage an nme 1 on 1 for 5 mins if 4 (buddies) show up all trying to kill him I usually break off, it just ain't cool. I don't like ganging either way.

I think we may be a dying breed tho...

Offline mars01

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2004, 03:00:11 PM »
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If I have alt and get no response I usually jump in if it looks close and no nmes are in the immediate area. I figure if he doesn't respond he's either too busy and worried about getting shot down or needs to get a mike.

I don't vulch (much) as I don't find it a challenge and I don't participate in conga lines either. Even if I engage an nme 1 on 1 for 5 mins if 4 (buddies) show up all trying to kill him I usually break off, it just ain't cool. I don't like ganging either way.

I think we may be a dying breed tho...


I would have to agree with that.

Offline Simaril

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2004, 04:26:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
I can't count .. even with an abacus ... how many times I have been saddled up on a cons 6 and had not one, but multiple people shooting over my shoulder. Geesh I hate that. Thanks for the help, but NO THANKS !!!

If my ammo were to go to zero everytime one of those bozos pinged me, I would be 1,000,000 times more pissed than if my ammo went to zero cause the bozo flew into my bullet stream.


You're right. I withdraw my suggestion.
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Offline Simaril

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2004, 04:34:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
The Spit will ping at 600 and I would bet that he is hoping to induce the La-7 to turn ... at that point the La is dead and he should rightfully be able to finish off the fight.

I have had guys ask me if I need help and if I feel that the La is pulling away, I will give them the go ahead. At least they had the courtesy to ask. I in turn do the same thing ... If I am higher, I will ask if they need help before I will drop in on the party.


OK, ettiquette is one thing -- but just because you've been stalking a plane doesnt mean you own it. Why shouldnt someone who "bought" his position by taking the time to grab alt have a claim on his BnZ style attack? He's stalking, too -- but with a different strategy, that is no better or worse than yours.

Now, i make it a practice to ask when it looks like somebody's engaged, unless its a madhouse furball. I just dont think we can say that everyone who doesnt is morally in the wrong.
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Offline SlapShot

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2004, 05:05:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
OK, ettiquette is one thing -- but just because you've been stalking a plane doesnt mean you own it. Why shouldnt someone who "bought" his position by taking the time to grab alt have a claim on his BnZ style attack? He's stalking, too -- but with a different strategy, that is no better or worse than yours.

Now, i make it a practice to ask when it looks like somebody's engaged, unless its a madhouse furball. I just dont think we can say that everyone who doesnt is morally in the wrong.


Wellllllllll ...

Many times I have fought, twisted, turned, and finally reversed a guy in what seemed to take forever (meaning - a good fight is on) and just when I am about to get a guns solutions, the "Hero" decides to fly in and save me from the guy that is on my 12, low and slow. Can you say ... pissed off !!!

I could care less if you have been climbing for 20 minutes, I don't believe that you then have the right to interject in my fight (unless asked to) and swoop away a kill that I just flew my pants off for. It just ain't right.

Your second paragraph is in the complete opposite direction of your first.

I am not attaching any morality to this ... I am just saying ... It just ain't right ... :D
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Offline Buzzz

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2004, 06:34:55 PM »
I still think that having planes on your own team be immune to your bullets is the best  solution.  Ammo loads are so precious that anything striking a team member is wasted lead and a penality in and of itself.  

One thing that can be said for sure about the current system is that is far from realistic and totally "un-sim-like."  (Unless your simulating 2nd graders saying "I'm rubber and your glue" to each other:)

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Offline Karnak

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2004, 06:43:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Buzzz
I still think that having planes on your own team be immune to your bullets is the best  solution.  Ammo loads are so precious that anything striking a team member is wasted lead and a penality in and of itself.  

One thing that can be said for sure about the current system is that is far from realistic and totally "un-sim-like."  (Unless your simulating 2nd graders saying "I'm rubber and your glue" to each other:)

-Buzzz


Sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree.  Friendly fire needs to eliminate an aircraft.  Anything less and it fouls up to combat.

Your suggestion would lead to rapant shoulder shooting and the person flying the aircraft on the defensive would have a vastly harder job to survive.
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Offline Simaril

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2004, 11:26:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Wellllllllll ...

Many times I have fought, twisted, turned, and finally reversed a guy in what seemed to take forever (meaning - a good fight is on) and just when I am about to get a guns solutions, the "Hero" decides to fly in and save me from the guy that is on my 12, low and slow. Can you say ... pissed off !!!

I could care less if you have been climbing for 20 minutes, I don't believe that you then have the right to interject in my fight (unless asked to) and swoop away a kill that I just flew my pants off for. It just ain't right.

Your second paragraph is in the complete opposite direction of your first.

I am not attaching any morality to this ... I am just saying ... It just ain't right ... :D


I think there's a big difference between dropping in on a combat that's closed to under 300, and the kind of thing people were describing above -- like trying to ping at 600-800. That target's fair game, though some seemed to imply that "intruding" on "their" target was at least rude.

If you'e been in extended. slow angles fight and have kept close range, you have an argument. If on the other hand, you think that since you've been eyeing a target everyone else has to stay away, I'd say go to the DA. The main arena is supposed to be a madhouse!
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Offline DipStick

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2004, 11:38:56 AM »
The main reason I say keep it but make ammo go to "0" is to reduce the "over your shoulder" shots and so it won't affect your K/D ratio if someone does fly into your guns.

Sure there's the obvious jump in front after 5mins engaged 1 on 1 and steal my kill but I hate when I work on an nme for a bit ,get all lined up on him and tracers come over my head, he breaks just as I was pulling the trigger and I have to start over while the dweeb that fired over me overshoots and flies off. That really ticks me off.

Offline SlapShot

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2004, 12:02:51 PM »
If on the other hand, you think that since you've been eyeing a target everyone else has to stay away, I'd say go to the DA. The main arena is supposed to be a madhouse

That I agree with, and could only be supported by the fact that you have been in the area and really know that the guy is "eyeing". I have been there and have no problem with it. Also, in that same situation, I have had people say ... "Slappy, I'm coming to your right so watch out for killshooter" ... that is most appreciated when that happens.

If you have just arrived on the scene, and have no clue as to what had transpired previously, then a simple question ... "do ya need help" ... would still be a good thing to do IMHO. If I am not gaining, I will always say ... "go for it".
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Offline phookat

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The thing where you shoot someone but take the damage..thing
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2004, 12:14:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
If you'e been in extended. slow angles fight and have kept close range, you have an argument. If on the other hand, you think that since you've been eyeing a target everyone else has to stay away, I'd say go to the DA. The main arena is supposed to be a madhouse!


Yeah, I agree.  Even if you're in slow angles, if someone else gets the kill...who cares.  You beat him already anyway, that's the important part.

Plus, help is help.  You might think you had him alone and you may be right...but having the possiblility of a BnZer dropping in on him definitely adversely impacts his response.