More Gun control???

[beet1e]

Originally posted by wrag
Freedom is not OWNING or doing anything it's the ability to OWN or do things if you wish.  Whenever anyone says you can't own or do something that is when you become less free.

I don't entirely agree. It's great being able to buy a new car, house or holiday. But the freedom for a nascent criminal to own a gun is going to be bad news for some - especially the victim of his first crime.

There are two broad choices.

• Allow everyone to own guns, and then live in fear of criminals with guns, and see an annual homicide rate expressed as a five digit value. That's the American way.
• Ban gun ownership, end enjoy freedom from gun crime. That's the Bermuda way. It's also the policy adopted by many other countries.  

I would go with #2 every time.

[wrag]

Originally posted by beet1e
I don't entirely agree. It's great being able to buy a new car, house or holiday. But the freedom for a nascent criminal to own a gun is going to be bad news for some - especially the victim of his first crime.

There are two broad choices.

• Allow everyone to own guns, and then live in fear of criminals with guns, and see an annual homicide rate expressed as a five digit value. That's the American way.
• Ban gun ownership, end enjoy freedom from gun crime. That's the Bermuda way. It's also the policy adopted by many other countries.  

I would go with #2 every time. [/B]

On #1
Actually the 5 digit value would become very low in a fairly short time.  Once those with a real strong criminal bent were gone or in prison things would probably settle down considerably.

And if you want #2 welcome to it.  IMHO a big husky fresh out of prison person, should that one chose to kill you, is gonna cause you allot more pain with a bat, or a knife, or club, or chain. or even their bare knuckles, then with a gun.

And as I said before it seems the concept is NOT wanted or understood.

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of
vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
W. R. Inge (1860-1954)
Dean of St. Paul's, London

The problem seems to be so many want to take away our rights. They seem to start just like the idea's presented in this thread.  Thus the responses.

"Whenever we take away the liberties of those whom we hate we
are opening the way to loss of liberty for those we love."
Wendell L. Willkie (1892-1944)
Ameican lawyer, businessman, politician

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
enemy from oppression."
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)
Anglo-American writer

[beet1e]

Actually the 5 digit value would become very low in a fairly short time.

It isn't happening in America.  

And if you want #2 welcome to it. IMHO a big husky fresh out of prison person, should that one chose to kill you, is gonna cause you allot more pain with a bat, or a knife, or club, or chain. or even their bare knuckles, then with a gun.

Well thanks! I wonder how many bat/knife/club/chain wielding guys fresh out of prison terrorise the inhabitants of Bermuda/Japan/Singapore etc...

[demaw1]

Beetle....


 Come on beetle even nash said our murder rate was twice that of yours,stands to reason if you had the number of people we have you might have more murders.

 It never ceases to amaze me, how fast common sense goes out the window, for those who want to take away some one elses freedom.

 Your granddad didnt have a weapon.Depending on how old you are ,are you sure about that.? At beginning of world war 2 the british didnt have enough weapons to supply their army much less home defence. Churchill asked those who had weapons to turn them in for army etc. 73 million pistols,rifles,shotguns became available....He said ,paraphasing , England is glad you did not obey the gun laws.The chances of your granddad having one was pretty good.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Toad
No. In 1789, it was to ensure the common man's use of arms.

I'm just saying that a lot of today's indifference to having or not having guns in countries like yours is because there is no real history of use of or right to arms by the common man. In fact, in those countries the common man was usually prohibited from owning/using arms.

Guns were banned here in 1971 after the governor, his aide de camp and his dog were all shot.

My father had to hand in his two rifles.

As far as "history" goes we have lots.  Like running guns to the Yanks in the War of Independence, turning a blind eye to the raiding of the gun-power arsenal here by the Americans, and also running the Yankee blockades in the Civil War...purely for profit of course.

We were an "equal opportunity" colony of Britain.  

[beet1e]

Originally posted by demaw1
Your granddad didnt have a weapon.Depending on how old you are ,are you sure about that.?  

I'm positive. One grandfather suffered long term illness for about 12 years and died in 1950. The other was a businessman but died in 1946 aged 62 (smoked too many cigs). Neither of them ever wore a raccoon on his head.

[Holden McGroin]

In 1996, America had 110,000 deaths (more than three times the number from guns) and according to a BBC report Great Britian had 33,000 deaths in 1997 related to the same thing.

Something that dangerous that is not required for everyday life should be outlawed don't you think?

[debuman]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
That's not the only thing... they also drive on the wrong side of the street and don't speak English correct.

I hate to be the one to correct your use of English, but I believe you should have used "correctly" instead of "correct" in the above sentence.

All this talk about guns being evil got to me, and I conducted an experiment.  I got my Glock 9mm, loaded it, and placed it on the dresser.  I stood in front of it, made faces at it, mooned it, and called it many different bad names (Colt, HK, Beretta, etc.).  Guess what?  The weapon never did a thing!  It just layed there like an inanimate object!

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by debuman
I hate to be the one to correct your use of English, but I believe you should have used "correctly" instead of "correct" in the above sentence.
 

Really? Ain't never woulda guessed.

[mauser]

Originally posted by beet1e
It isn't happening in America.   Well thanks! I wonder how many bat/knife/club/chain wielding guys fresh out of prison terrorise the inhabitants of Bermuda/Japan/Singapore etc...

You know, I wonder how much good a dose of public humiliation would do to first time criminals.  Or the REAL threat of the death penalty for those that deserve it.  Maybe then people in the US would have the same sense of shame and consequence that some of these other countries have.  Until then, we STILL have career criminals on the streets, even here in Hawaii.  The state just put away a guy named Shane Mark for second degree murder in the shooting of Officer Glen Gaspar.  By the way, since he was a career criminal, he wasn't supposed to have a gun in the first place - so where the f did he get it?   Some people just have no sense of right and wrong and no shame - no sense of "if I did this, I'd dishonor my family."   If you're so lucky as to live where the majority of people respect each other as well as themselves, then good.  If not, that's the hand you're dealt with.  

By the way, even if somehow crime in the US were to miraculously become as low as that of rural Japan tomorrow, I'd still want to do this:


US Army Marksmanship Unit - High Power Rifle

or this:

Me renting an H&K MP-5 in Las Vegas

or even this:


Michele Frangilli of Italy

...and although I'm not into hunting, I admire those who stalk and hunt for food - so I wouldn't mind the continued freedom of doing that either.  

mauser

[beet1e]

Originally posted by debuman
I hate to be the one to correct your use of English, but I believe you should have used "correctly" instead of "correct" in the above sentence.

All this talk about guns being evil got to me, and I conducted an experiment.  I got my Glock 9mm, loaded it, and placed it on the dresser.  I stood in front of it, made faces at it, mooned it, and called it many different bad names (Colt, HK, Beretta, etc.).  Guess what?  The weapon never did a thing!  It just layed there like an inanimate object!

Glad to see that you noticed the use of the word "correct" instead of "correctly". Why are Americans so loathe to use adverbs?

But then you made a mistake of your own.  The past participle of the verb "to lay" is laid, not layed.

Your inanimate object scenario is as corny as it is old. I have already explained that more than one ingredient is needed to produce a gunshot: A gun, some ammunition, and the person who fires the gun. Too bad if that person is an idiot. We have gun laws which work, but may not work perfectly. The laws are designed to keep guns out of the hands of idiots. But since we cannot legislate against idiots, we do the next best thing which is to keep guns out of circulation. But Oh! I hear you cry, this keeps guns out of the hands of the law abiding. Yes it does, and that is necessary because we don't want criminals to be able to steal them. According to some of the excellent research done by Nashwan further up this thread, theft from legitimate owners is one of the key methods that criminals have of obtaining guns. That, plus unscrupulous sales of guns on the black market to make a profit.

Today's lesson is to learn these sums. Are you good at sums?

• Gun = safe
• Idiot = safe
• Gun + Idiot = Boom
• House + gun in locked safe = safe
• House + unsecured gun = risk (opportunist thief/criminal)
• Solving the above equation, we get House - unsecured gun = opportunist thief + gun = danger.
• opportunist thief + gun + alcohol = bigger danger
• opportunist thief + gun = opportunity to sell gun unlawfully.
• jilted lover + opportunity to buy gun = risk
• jilted lover + gun + confrontation with former lover = homicide.

We'll move on to multiplication and division in next week's lesson.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by beet1e
Glad to see that you noticed the use of the word "correct" instead of "correctly". Why are Americans so loathe to use adverbs?

Because my statement wouldn't have been funny if I'd have used english properly?

Gun = safe
Idiot = Safe
Idiot + Gun = Boom

Glad you are safe from guns...

[AWMac]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Or shoot targets....or shoot clay pidgeons....


You allways have to have a PERSON pulling the trigger or "fiddleing" with it or leaving it to be "played" with by a child unatended

Clay Pidgeons are harder than hell to clean and no matter how you cook them they still taste like chit!

[AWMac]

beet1e you forgot:

* Guns + Insecure High School Kids + Black Trench Coats + Anger = Colombine.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Glad you are safe from guns...

If only I could be safe from idiots...