It's not fine the way it is. . .

[DoKGonZo]

OK. But if you do the arbitrary segmentation of the MA into two 300-person arenas, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it won't take a week before some people realize they can flood one of these arenas at peak time and get the gang-bang orgy they desire. And if you juggle the code to balance out the sides, then some people won't be able to fly with their squadrons because of this.

Trinity was insane with so many fields. I was amazed it ended as fast as it.

If you just want to have a dogfight in a hurry, then a more spread out map may not hurt you. Just look for which friendly base is most likely to get attacked next and go there. The fight will come to you.

And there are other options. Suppose you made all single-runway fields for re-arm only? You can't get a new plane, only re-arm the one you're in. Still valuable to capture, still allows quick return to the furball, but given the mortality and HO rates a lot of people will have to exit there and replane at the nearest major field.

     -DoK

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
OK. But if you do the arbitrary segmentation of the MA into two 300-person arenas, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it won't take a week before some people realize they can flood one of these arenas at peak time and get the gang-bang orgy they desire. And if you juggle the code to balance out the sides, then some people won't be able to fly with their squadrons because of this.

Trinity was insane with so many fields. I was amazed it ended as fast as it.

If you just want to have a dogfight in a hurry, then a more spread out map may not hurt you. Just look for which friendly base is most likely to get attacked next and go there. The fight will come to you.

And there are other options. Suppose you made all single-runway fields for re-arm only? You can't get a new plane, only re-arm the one you're in. Still valuable to capture, still allows quick return to the furball, but given the mortality and HO rates a lot of people will have to exit there and replane at the nearest major field.

     -DoK

No argument from me on your first paragraph.

Trinity at one time was nicknamed "Inifinty" ... thats how hard it was to reset. I think that with all the unhappy people (due to the horde syndrome), most just log off in disgust and don't put up the fight that they use to.

Looking for a base under attack was what I use to do mostly and it did provide all the enjoyment that I needed. As of late, I find that there aren't as many willing to up and it most inevitably turns into a gangbang. I'll up a certain amount of times under these conditions, but there is a point where I say "enough is enough".

Your last paragraph/idea has merit and could be considered food for thought.

I can't really put my finger on where it all went sour. In AH I, we use to have over 700 people loged on and the "horde" never really played a large part in putting a damper on gameplay as we see it now .. or as we want to see it ... I really can't put my finger on just "one" thing that has caused the MA malcontent that is spewed all over this BBS.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by SlapShot
All good thoughts Dok, but there are those that dont' care to paricipate in the "field capture" ... "lets win the reset" line of thought. Which I am one of.

Bollocks! I winged with you and we took down a town ready for the goon to make the capture. Here you are, levelling the town. You were good at it. I could tell you'd had practice. You say one thing, and you do another. How about that for a new squad mantra? :lol;)

[Toad]

Getting desperate for entertainment, aren't you Beet?

You still have the same old e-mail addy? The naranja one at yahoo?

[DoKGonZo]

The cycle of a game like AH being "no fun" is just part of the deal. Happened in AW, WB, ... all of 'em. At some point either you change or the game changes ... and then  it's no longer "the same."

Horde Warrior is easier to sustain when it's only a 5 or 8 minute flight back to the base being vultched. You get shot down, you re-up and are right back in no time. Look at the radar map and you can see the drool-trail of The Horde going from their nearest base to where they're vultching. And that's where it gets boring, really. The front becomes static.

From an "I just want to dogfight" perspective, I'd think you'd find the over-use of head-ons much more of an issue than the base proximity.  Not just in individual fights, but in the fact that they give whoever has more numbers even more of an edge.

[RedTop]

Originally posted by beet1e
Bollocks! I winged with you and we took down a town ready for the goon to make the capture. Here you are, levelling the town. You were good at it. I could tell you'd had practice. You say one thing, and you do another. How about that for a new squad mantra? :lol;)

Beeet.....I am just about the same as Slap and alot of other guys. I could care less about land grabbing. I will however if asked lend a hand to the team. Doesnt mean nothing in the grand scheme of thing.

Dok has a point as well.  I Find HO's much more of a nuisence than flying a lil longer to a fight.

Being good at hitting something doesnt mean your a steady participant in those duties.

I say the HEAK with Towns...make it back to the old way of Fighters capping and while the suicide JABOS downed all the hangers and base capture came right behind em.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Horde Warrior is easier to sustain when it's only a 5 or 8 minute flight back to the base being vultched. You get shot down, you re-up and are right back in no time. Look at the radar map and you can see the drool-trail of The Horde going from their nearest base to where they're vultching. And that's where it gets boring, really. The front becomes static.

I call this scenario "conveyor belting". I agree entirely with what you said, except that the furballers think that even 6 minutes is too long a flight between bases. I timed an RTB in a P47, and even on the pizza map it was only 6 minutes. The furballers get bored with that. They want it down to 2 or 3. And the very scenario you describe above becomes a reality.

[phookat]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Horde Warrior is easier to sustain when it's only a 5 or 8 minute flight back to the base being vultched.

I think you are not considering the effects of other close bases on the defense.  Sure the vultchers can come back--and they always will regardless of distance--but the defenders can up from another close base.  So the vultchfest is easily aborted or prevented with close base spacing.

With far bases, the defenders don't have that option.  You either up a "capped" field and get vultched, or you join a horde of your own color.

This is true both in theory and in practice.  Log in at USPT on Pizza, and what you'll find is a bunch of monocolor blobs far away from each other, milkrunning bases.  You rarely find a relatively even fight, regardless of numbers imbalance.

[phookat]

Originally posted by RedTop
I Find HO's much more of a nuisence than flying a lil longer to a fight.

It's not about flying a little longer for a fight.  It's about finding a fight at all, with relatively even numbers.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by beet1e
Bollocks! I winged with you and we took down a town ready for the goon to make the capture. Here you are, levelling the town. You were good at it. I could tell you'd had practice. You say one thing, and you do another. How about that for a new squad mantra? :lol;)

Don't be so myopic my dear Brit friend. My main objective in this AH life, at the moment,  IS NOT capture and reset. Yes, if I am in the area and there is NO ONE TO KILL, I will chip in and help with a capture ... gotta find something to do after flying all that way.

Practice ? ... I guess so ... Myself and any MAW squaddie are experts at capture. I flew with the MAW for almost 2 years and was CO of the 3rd MAW for awhile.

3rd MAW's objective was ack suppression first and then near base CAP. The other MAW squads had different objectives. When all combined, they are practically un-stopable.

[beet1e]

Slap, my yankee-doodle-dandy - I have no problem with you doing what you did. Heck, I was there doing it with you after we killed a few cons. But why do you feel the need to wash your hands of this sort of thing on this board? No-one's going to make you wear a bell round your neck you know, and you won't have to wear a sign bearing the word "UNCLEAN".

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The cycle of a game like AH being "no fun" is just part of the deal. Happened in AW, WB, ... all of 'em. At some point either you change or the game changes ... and then  it's no longer "the same."

Horde Warrior is easier to sustain when it's only a 5 or 8 minute flight back to the base being vultched. You get shot down, you re-up and are right back in no time. Look at the radar map and you can see the drool-trail of The Horde going from their nearest base to where they're vultching. And that's where it gets boring, really. The front becomes static.

From an "I just want to dogfight" perspective, I'd think you'd find the over-use of head-ons much more of an issue than the base proximity.  Not just in individual fights, but in the fact that they give whoever has more numbers even more of an edge.

"Horde Warrior" or "conveyor belt" is a double-edged sword as phookat has pointed out. Beet whine of the "conveyor belt" is simply a guise for him wanting to jump a base with a small hordelet and once capped, wants to fly unopposed or vultch the crap out of anybody until the goon arrives.

I have noted that you have mentioned HO in some of your posts. Seems to be a bone of contention for you. Head-ons don't present a problem for me. Its probably because I am so use to it, that I know exactly when to make the move to avoid it.

Once I see a guy firing from 1.0 to 800 out, I drool. I would say that 8 out of 10 times, that guy will die within 2 turns and most times withing 1 turn. When I don't see the HO is when I know that I am in for a good fight.

Dok, I know that you have just recently returned ... some friendly advice ... ALWAYS expect the HO and ALWAYS be prepared to avoid it.

Merging nose to nose these days is not an option. You must cause angles before the merge, causing the enemy to adjust. Barrel-rolls are quite effective against a surprise oncoming HO ... it won't get you on the guys 6, but it will allow you to continue the fight.

I am sure you know how to fight ... I am not being condecending here ... just trying to help ya adjust to the new AH.

[DipStick]

Originally posted by phookat
I think you are not considering the effects of other close bases on the defense.  Sure the vultchers can come back--and they always will regardless of distance--but the defenders can up from another close base.  So the vultchfest is easily aborted or prevented with close base spacing.

With far bases, the defenders don't have that option.  You either up a "capped" field and get vultched, or you join a horde of your own color.

This is true both in theory and in practice.  Log in at USPT on Pizza, and what you'll find is a bunch of monocolor blobs far away from each other, milkrunning bases.  You rarely find a relatively even fight, regardless of numbers imbalance.

Bingo!

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by beet1e
Slap, my yankee-doodle-dandy - I have no problem with you doing what you did. Heck, I was there doing it with you after we killed a few cons. But why do you feel the need to wash your hands of this sort of thing on this board? No-one's going to make you wear a bell round your neck you know, and you won't have to wear a sign bearing the word "UNCLEAN".

Beet .. honestly ... no hand washing here ... I DON'T CARE ABOUT BASE CAPTURE AND RESETS.

I am, and have been true to that for quite awhile now. That still doesn't mean that I WON'T participate in these activities, it just that I really DON'T care.

[XtrmeJ]

I don't see the dilema, what does it matter if they care or not? Everyone will have their own opinion.