Author Topic: 38 damage model?  (Read 1043 times)

Offline X2Lee

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38 damage model?
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2004, 07:54:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
The objects that stick out top and bottom in the direct center of the tail... Lead weights that the army wanted Johnson to try out while everyone was figuratively speaking "trying to crack the compression nut."  Johnson was critical of those weights, not sure why they remained in the design after the mechanics of compression was worked out.

Was standing under the tail of a p38 chatting with FF1, and realized I absentmindedly had my hand on the bottom lead weight.  I was like 'oh cool, thats what that thing is like in real life'


dID YALL HAVE A kRISPY kREME DONUT SHOP NEAR THE PORT?

Offline killnu

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38 damage model?
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2004, 08:03:57 PM »
X2lee, nvr said it was l33t, just that it works for me.  ;)  i dont think that manual crap is all that myself, but that is just me.
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Offline Murdr

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38 damage model?
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2004, 08:42:26 PM »
combat trim tries to adjust elevators to the effect of; if you let go of the stick, it will neither nose up or nose down.  The faster you go, the more combat trim will lower the elevator tabs.

In the 38 this creates a problem when entering compression.  You want to pull up, and combat trim is working aginst you by trimming elevators down.  Also in real life as in AH, compression recovery could be achieved by trimming the elevators up, and eventually the trim catches enough air to change AoA enough for the wings to gain positive pressure underneath.

Something to keep in mind about elevator trim is that its effect on the wings AoA is cumulative with actual elevator operation.  I will pick an abitray number of degree to explain my point.  Lets say your plane will lose controled flight if your wings are pitched up 18degrees in relation to its direction of travel.  It does not matter whether you are causing that pitch with elevators, trim, or a combination of the two.  That threshhold of 18deg is still the same.  In other words you can turn just as tight with neutral trim and max elevator angle, as you can with max trim and minimal elevator angle.  The lift or stall happens at the wing, the elevator is just a tool to change the AoA of the wing.

Now add combat trim to the equation.  The harder you turn, the more air you displace, the more drag produced, you lose speed.  Now say you pull a tight turn at the edge of controled flight, and hold your elevators at a constant angle.  The turn will slow you down, which causes the combat trim to tab up.  So even though you kept a constant elevator angle with the stick, combat trim has in effect added more angle.  If you were riding the edge it may have just pushed you over the edge.

The same applies to vertical stall maneuvers.  You zoom to stall speed, and combat trim is trimming way up to adjust to your speed.  After the stall over, combat trim is applying so much angle, that there is very little you can do with the stick.  If you had manual trim neutral in that situation, you have more lattitude to apply elevator input at an earlier time.

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing aginst combat trim.  In the 38, it is something I toggle on and off quickly to retrim my plane neutral relative to speed.  In BnZ situations in any plane I may keep it on to give myself a stable shooting platform.  Because of the reasons outlined above it is something I use on the basis of the situation, and not full time.

Offline X2Lee

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38 damage model?
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2004, 08:50:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Muddie
Ummm tommy just which nasty lil bugger you talking bout???   You say it hangs down between your rudders?


:eek:


yall got donuts over there?:cool:

Offline Ack-Ack

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38 damage model?
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2004, 05:34:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eilif
i have been playing around with triming all the way up as i merge and then putting it in a more neutral position, if i have plenty of e to trade for angle (only tried this when fighting other p38's). Anyone else do this? l. (this is for the looping stall fight)
Blixen and a few others use the dive flaps on the merge too, havent got that to work for me.



I pretty much keep the elevators trimmed to neutral at all times unless I'm in a vertical maneuver and trying to keep the nose up as long as possible.  

The dive flaps on the merge depend on what speed you are going.  Remember that the initial purpose of the dive flaps was to provide a positive lift to aid the P-38 in recovering from high speed dives.  In real life the P-38 pilots did use the dive flaps in high speed turning situations, kind of like an extra high speed combat flap.  But they could only use it for a few seconds because the nose up lift it provided would quickly drain the energy way.   In AH, the dive flaps can be used in a similiar fashion to help turning, usually at speeds above 300mph but can also be used at speeds as slow as 250mph.  I have not seen any real noticable effects from the dive flaps below 250mph.  At that speed and slower, you're just better off using the normal flaps.


ack-ack
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Offline Muddie

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38 damage model?
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2004, 11:12:39 AM »
Krispy Kremes even.  Be careful near any of the KK donut shops if the 'Hot Donuts Now' sign is lit up.  People turning every whichaway.   :aok



Quote
Originally posted by X2Lee
yall got donuts over there?:cool: