New idea what do you ladies and gentlemen think.

[RDSaustinTX]

This is bad.
 
Look, the numbers are part of the dynamic, the politics, the whinefests, the very essence and fabric of the game.
 
No country dominates forever. Eventually every country gets its hoard. Folks who hate it can always change sides. Many squads tour every country.
 
As it was, we had variety. Some nights the numbers were even, some nights they weren't. The fortunes of war.
 
BUT you have removed the player's choice of being on the defensive, playing in the hoard, or somewhere in between. THIS ALSO IGNORES THE POSSIBILITIES TO ENHANCE THE STRAT SYSTEM!  Give us an interesting (fun) way to keep those hoards starving for something and the differential in numbers actually enhances the gameplay. Er, sorry, simulation immersion.
 
I really hate the idea of artificially changing something so fundamental. This stuff, combined with the limited fuel porking is making the strategy monotonous. All that works is swarming airfields.
 
Plus it ain't realistic at all. A country with 2:1 odds ain't gonna be having 'automatic' hindrances.
 
Give us things to pork, let people join whichever side they choose, then fix the display ordering bugs. I'm flipping panzers like crazy.
 
Thanks in Advance,  
 
Mullah

[MOSQ]

Simaril,
You are correct, I'm talking about Score, not Perk points.

Let's examine how the score chasers will view the new ENY based system. If they are on the larger numbers country, they will not be happy when they have to fly ENY 35 planes. Too easy to get killed by the opposing short numbers country LA-7s and P-51s. So they will likely switch to the short numbers country, unless the short country is so short as to be especially dangerous. So HiTechs new system will have the desired effect.

Except that it's going to really upset folks who are forced to fly planes they don't like if they want to stay with their squad and country.

In my suggestion, no one is forced to fly anything different. Everyone from all countries can fly LA-7s if they so choose. It's just that the outnumbered country's pilots will get more SCORE points than the steamrolling hordes. So a score chaser can choose voluntarily to fly for the outnumbered country if he wants an extra boost to his score.

Incentive is almost always better than punishment if you want to modify behavior in a group.

I don't really care if the ENY system is used on a personal level. I almost always fly the second tier planes anyway, the Mossie being my favorite. It will just make survival easier for me. But I think it will negatively impact the number of customers HTC has.

[hitech]

MOSQ: You system was punishment also, just I wasn't punishing you.


HiTech

[Xargos]

huh?

[4510]

Originally posted by hitech
On the amount of time, I need to do some estamations of average time of flight vs down time. It is then a matter of picking the time limit to put aproximatly the same number in the air from each side.


HiTech

Why do we feel the need to do it at all?  The three country design is supposed to take care of numbers imbalance.  I am in the heavy handed camp on this one.

[bizket]

Instead of totally disabling the AC with high ENY values for a country with a numbers advantage. Would it be possible to just limit the amount of fields you were able to fly them from.

For example if Rooks had a large numbers advantage they would only be able to fly high ENY AC from a field a certain distance away from the closest enemy field. The larger the numbers advantage the farther you have to fly.  Say two fields with a 20% advantage three with a 30% advantage and so on a so forth.

It would be a huge pain in the bellybutton but it wouldnt limit what AC you could fly. I think it would help slow down the hordes of nik's LA7s and Ponys entering the fight and might motivate the lone wolfs to switch sides.

[Hades55]

Speaking about ideas, this was posted before 1 month

>>>

Originally posted by hitech
I sorta like this idea.



Not at all.. if i have two friends who now want to join AH and ofcourse they want to be with me, they must Can be with me.

Im more than 2 years here and i have never change country, but
every one who want to change must have the freedom to do it.
Every one has his reasons.
Ofcourse the numbers is a problem, but this can be solved with
other ways. Like.....
If the #s of a country are more than 25% if someone change a
country (to the weakest) give him 200 perks, or 500 or 1000.
BUT he cant change again for 1 month  or if he want to go back
to the strongest country then take back his perks and take more
than what he have win.
Or, again, if someone go with the weakest give him unperked planes for 15-30 days lets say


__________________
There is a Art,maby black,
but Civilizations Born or Die
because of it.
The Art of War.                    <<<<<<<<<<<

http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1310141&highlight=numbers#post1310141

[nazgulAX]

A time limit on reup's in the hopes that people change sides or LOG-OFF?
I realize the lopsidedness(is that a word?) has been a big issue for a while, but as a buissnessmen for many years, I don't think discouraging clients is a valid solution to the problem. If you suggested at a board meeting that you needed to find a way to get people to leave your "store" before getting what they came for you would probably be looking for a job the next day.(Or a good rehab!)

When dealing with this many people in such a come and go setting ,there may not be a real good answer. Alot of people have a loyalty to their "chess piece" and won't change sides, Nor is it fair to expect them to. Anything that inhibits a paying customers experience is not a good buissness tactic. I know some will say that the "numbers" inhibit their playing, but I am talking about the limitations that are being imposed. At least the outnumbered team you has the option not to up a vulched field, or better yet, quit whining and organize a raid to an undefended field. That will take pressure off the fields being attacked when people up to defend, and if they don't defend, take it.

As you said, the numbers have not been that far off lately. Yes rooks do RJO nights on sunday, but the whole arena knows that, and that is something the Rooks have been doing for a long time. To penalize one side for organizing one night a week isn't promoting teamwork, and thats a big reason to even have real time sims like this. Nothing is stopping the Bish or Knits from doing the same thing, and somtimes they do. The knights are famous for putting together good missions and taking fields when they don't have numbers.

What about(if possable) making planes on the ground unkillable ? Just till they leave the ground( like the guns on buffs not being able to fire till off the ground). That would at least give some guys a fighting chance to get some field defence going. Or make the VH's unkillable for the outnumbered team? Anything seems better than forcing paying customers to do somthing they really don't want to do.

Well, thats my 2 cents.
Feel free to point out spelling errors, call me stupid, or just complain about anything that pisses you off.

[4510]

AX,

  I am with you on most everything.  Nicely said.  We've already done the perk amounts floating based on numbers.  I don't think adding other changes are in our best interest.  

Example... Rooks might have 160 people up vs 120 Bish and 110 Knits.  Rooks might have only 6 fields compared to the other teams 20+ each.  Are we going to then add further advantage to the teams with lesser numbers?  Resets are about fields, not totally numbers. (tho who can deny numbers are what take fields in most cases)

The three country setup of AH is designed to allow the countries to pick whom and where they want to fight to further their cause.  If we need to have forced numbers leveling, then the three country setup is invalid and mights well be scrapped.  We can just do this with two countries and be done with it.

My opinon of course... but hey... I pays, I plays...

[TBolt A-10]

Originally posted by hitech
To begin with I think side imbalencing has not been that much of a problem over the years. Only on a few occasions has things gotten out of wack.

But there have been times when the numbers have gotten far out of wack.  We typicly resist any change that forces people to different sides.We typicly are more inclined to giving incentives to changing sides to the lower number country, but so far it has not been a strong enough force to always keep the sides  close to balance.


Our current thought is that a country with substantialy more numbers, say in the realm of 20% more will have a time limit imposed between flights. This time would vary with the side balance.

This would have a few effects.

1. No one realy wants to wait to fly another fight, wrather than wait some will either change sides, or log off. Either has the effect of balancing the numbers.

2. The wait time will also have the effect of fewer people acctualy in the air at one time. Hence also balancing the fighting numbers.


Your thoughts?


HiTech

Okay, I admit it.  It's been a long several days, & it's past 2:30am now that I'm finally checking these boards.  But, I gotta post really quick and agree with the minority (apparently) here...there is no way that I want to be stuck in a tower when I'm paying to play this game online.  I don't pay money to sit in a tower.

I don't care if the enemy bombs my factory and disables a certain plane for a period of time.  But, waiting around until the buzzer on some time clock goes off?!?  No way.  No way.  

1. No one realy wants to wait to fly another fight, wrather than wait some will either change sides, or log off. Either has the effect of balancing the numbers.

1) some people refuse to change countries.  2) how is it good business practice to force a paying customer to leave the shop unhappy???  jeeezus man.

[majortom]

hitech and all,

Propably too late to have any impact on whether this addtion to the game stays or not.
The first I heard of it this weekend when I couldnt get in my Pony. I was sore as hell, but Ive had a few days  to calm down and think it over and I still dont like the idea. hehe

First off let me say, I think this is the best game in town. Been playing ah and ah2 for 3 years now: the first and only fligth sim I ever played. I'm kind of a special case because I dont like flying anything but the Pony - no bombers - no spits - I dont even know what the inside of a 190 looks like. LOL! So I'm unusual I guess. In the best squad in the game - 412th - and thats our plane of choice. Anyway, everyones saying you'll get used to it . And i probably will, but I just wanted to let my opinions air on this post, like you asked. Well, I just know that now that's its part of the ah2 I dont like. I dont like being told what plane to use or not. Thats the way i feel, just wanted to get it off my chest.

One more thing hitech / HTC. Like i said this is the best game in town ! IMHO It does not need to be FIXED, its fine just the way it is, just upgrade everything - dont keep tweekin it here and there and losing 4 or 5 members with every tweek and suddenly look over into the MA one friday night and theres only 80 people.  

Just my humble opinion,

hitech and all,

majortom

[save]

hitech :

You could go an alternative way by using a
wingman system for bombers.

In "Another Multiplayer Sim"  a system with wingmen has solved the obvious problem when b24s are "too good" to its opposition (he111's and ju88's) and a wingman system have been used.

Converting this into AH2 this could solve the number problems.

In simple you get 1-2 wingmen attached for you bomber and can be more effective against the better numbered adversories..

You should also be able to jump between your '"current " machine and the other  machines if you get shot down, something the "other sim" does not have currently.

[Stegahorse]

After all the whining and consternation, Last night (Sunday) was fun again. I was concerned on how the side balancing would work. What I saw was far more enjoyable. No Rook Horde swarming over the map irresistably. Now, a couple of bases were took by the rooks, but it was more of a tactical attack then one of numbers.
I saw the Knights get the unbalance counteraction when Bishop's Numbers fell. The Rooks were not the only ones actioned.

Overall. I experienced much better game play. I felt that I could make some difference on Sunday night again!
Well Done HTC and Dale!

[BUG_EAF322]

when i cannot fly the p38 it totally suks specialy because there are no early type p38s.

and why in the fk is the envy on the p38 so low

[humble]

Actually the ENY on the 38 (assuming it hasnt changed) is way to high. Probably the best "value pick" in the plane set, however with the changes the fact that it's the only "major" plane without multiple varients is a legit issue. A 109/mustang/jug/190/LA/F4-U driver has options...even the 205 Zeke F-6 do if you include the 202/F4F as "varients". Truthfully I'm suprised the "penalty" went that high...kind of assumed it would hit the top 4-5 rides only...