Hitech You're Killing the 339th Fighter Group!

[4510]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
Soup...

Nah, AW put newbies in randomly, just like AH does. One difference between this and AW is that in AW the arena limits were set at 250. Additionally, there were zone limits, which limited the total number of planes that could fly from given field.

And AW wasn't dominated by land grab and GVs.. it was about flying airplanes..



I had forgotten the limits of planes that could take off from fields.

Good memory....  but I still don't think drastic action to balance sides is warranted.  More esprit in the other countries to counter the effects is what is needed.  

I mean, I've seen some of that over the last couple of nights.  I think I've had 5 fields to fly from for two nights running.  Good fights tho!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Midnight
I
Someone posted about using the P-51B instead, well sorry, that's not a solution for the MA now that AHII gunnery is here. It's hard enough to get a kill with 6 guns, let alone 4.. not to mention the shorter ammo load to boot.
Personally, I don't see how the P-51D should be in the same ENY class as the La7 anyway. It is hardly an easy plane to kill in, and is easily defeated if flown by an un-skilled pilot.

Try flying the Pony B Exclusive for a week just as an experiment.
Bet inside a week your at least as good in the B as you were in the D
Probably better.

I actually find the b model alot easier to get kills in.

6 guns 4 guns 1 gun doesnt matter.
Its where the bullets go.
Only takes one bullet in the noggen to ruin someones day

[KurtVW]

Wow, after reading some of the long winded self important 'my side first' rants in here I have finally figured something out...

Most of you don't fly... You can't.. There is no time after you write your 1500 word essay.

Fly more cry less.  Be good little citizens

[Wotan]

4510,

I never flew AW; I thought it sucked from the early days on. I don’t care anything about AW.

It’s in HT’s interest to keep the game balanced. No one will suffer through being the perpetual underdog or cannon fodder for long. Numbers have been complained about at various times over the years. Folks complained and then folks took it on themselves to fix the problem.

In times past each side has had its time in the bucket.  The solution was always found by the players and squads who switched to even things out. HT attempted several other small fixes to encourage side balance using perks and eny values. These haven't worked.

With the current irrational "side loyalty" folks are refusing to switch. Folks should switch because it makes game play better when all sides are at or near to parity. This is game not a real war. Friends won’t be lost and if they are new friendships will develop as well as new enemies. At the very least  folks may actually discover a new plane or two.

When rooks were down folks moved over to balance the numbers. Now that the rooks have the numbers all you hear is "Rook or Die" and "I won’t betray my country" blah blah blah. It’s idiotic in the extreme.

HT saw this was an issue and pointed out that even those folks who agree that the sides are unbalanced are unwilling to switch themselves.

I am all but sure HT has lost customers due to the gangbang. It is a smart business move to see to it that all sides are balanced and have an equal opportunity for fun.

He is forced to do something because the players are unwilling to do it themselves. Any other BS you want to wrap into it is beside the point. I am not saying I agree with the solution because I don’t. However, something needed to be done.

As to strat, who cares? I surely don't...

[Overlag]

Originally posted by 4ACES
HiTech needs to concentrate on fixing this --- game.... the terrain is a frame rate sucking pos.... (Reminds me of AW Big Pac over Hawaii)  worry about the other later!!!

buy a new pc

anything from 2002 onwards can run this at a good enough fps
but then if your still using your 1998 pc then you deserve to get crap fps.

knowing pcs cost less in the US i Bet you could get a good enough pc for alittle under $300

[Overlag]

Originally posted by 4510
So the Bish and Knights lack the organization, squads, desire, etc. to organize on their own to counter a Rook Sunday night?



And that is somehow the fault of the Rooks?

or maybe bish/knit have more European players that need to sleep?

im not moving to the USA just to even the sides...hell you wont even switch a country in a game...yet you want me to in real life?

but then, theres another thread in GD that a European rook asking for the teams to be evened......because knits/bish normaly have 50 in the morning, while rooks only have 25-30.....

[dtango]

Phookat:

No kidding. Talk about gutless. Seems like this attitude is the way to show the least respect for the RL squad they are supposedly representing.

Not surprised to see the overlap between this crowd and the d1.0k sniperz from AH1.

Gutless?  Not showing respect?  The insult method of debate doesn't work for me because it lacks any reason.

Hint: make it a squad policy to join the lowest numbered team on squad night, whatever it is. Then it'll be easy for your squadmates to join the right country. If you don't find the CO when you join, tune your radio to him and ask which country the squad is fighting for this evening. Not too difficult folks.

If it were only that simple.  We have 24 members in the squadron who fly on any of the 7 days out of the week spread across 12 hours worth of time zones.  You'll probably find any of 2-8 out of 24 pilots on sometime in those 12 hours throughout the week.  On squad nights we have about 8-10 guys show up which usually aren't the same 8-10 guys the week before.  With a 12 hour limit on country switching the chances are pretty good we'll have guys stranded in different countries on any night of the week making it more difficult to fly altogether as a squad.  Thinking about the probablistic math is already making my head hurt.  Hopefully this begins to give a picture of the scheduling headache this presents for a group that enjoys very tight teamwork.

Bottom line for the 412th is this- (a) P-51's, (b) teamwork & camaraderie, (c) getting kills together.  This is what we find fun.  Isn't that what we all really care about and the bottom line motivation for any of us to fly in AH?  

The new ENY system to encourage country switching presents multiple dilemmas for squadrons like the 412th or 339th.  

We'll learn to deal with it but to oversimplify the problems to be solved is not being "REALISTIC" .

And by the way, let's not get started on the holy grail of "realism".  It's a slippery slope because if anyone gave it any "real" thought to it they would realize that the so called realism isn't very real at all.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[dragoon]

i support your cause 100% no matter what the peon flammers might say your cause is just and i salute you

[TDeacon]

Could someone tell me how this balancing scheme works?  (Too lazy to search through 500 posts to find out).  

Is there still a time limit on switching countries?  Was wondering what happens if you are forced to switch, and then the numbers change to favor your new country such that your favorite plane isn't avail there either.  You could be locked into the new country by the time limit.  

I have a bad feeling about this...   :-(

[Hades55]

>>>The design of AH is what makes the numbers game have a bigger impact. Design a game where the winning country reaps perkies.. you built in the problem right there. But still how long has AH been going and the numbers issue while decried, has always existed. Certainly recent history would have the Rooks with more numbers... but think back 18 months... or more... and Rooks were the doormat and Bish were the most numerous. It just is kind of cyclic. <<<

Yes, but then, many  bishes and knitwits came to rookieland to suport it, even whole squads.
Problem is as the cycle turns and now rookies are the prob, no one from them come back to the weakest country.
So, YOU are who asked for HTC solution.

[4510]

Originally posted by Overlag
or maybe bish/knit have more European players that need to sleep?

im not moving to the USA just to even the sides...hell you wont even switch a country in a game...yet you want me to in real life?

but then, theres another thread in GD that a European rook asking for the teams to be evened......because knits/bish normaly have 50 in the morning, while rooks only have 25-30.....

I can feel your pain ... as far as getting up early.... I flew AW from Germany for a couple of years.  I know what it is like to get up at 3am to fly with my squad.



However I think the numbers popularity thing for Rooks is a direct result of the Rook organization (RJO) or whatever it is called.  Other countries could do the same thing.

Also the BISH and KNITs vs the ROOKs seems to have worked the last couple nights.  Of course you COULD say it was carried to the extreme... being as it was 230-250 BISH/KNITS vs 140 ROOKS.. but hey... if that is what it takes... the fights were fun.

[4510]

Originally posted by Wotan
4510,

I never flew AW; I thought it sucked from the early days on. I don’t care anything about AW.

Which of course invalidates any other points mentioned concerning how the AW community and the AW staff handled a very similar situation.  Makes sense to me.  If the game sucked, then nothing related to the game has relevance.  I understand completely.



It’s in HT’s interest to keep the game balanced. No one will suffer through being the perpetual underdog or cannon fodder for long. Numbers have been complained about at various times over the years. Folks complained and then folks took it on themselves to fix the problem.

It is in HT's interest to provide a gaming experience that is enjoyed by the MAJORITY of his account holders, not the vocal minority. Glad I don't have to decide which way to turn.

I joined this whole thread for two reasons.  I think the original poster had every right to voice his opinion concerning this impending change.  A paying customer that wants to make sure that HT hears his side.  Why everyone wanted to step up with such things as "fly something else" etc. is beyond me.  He pays his money and he has a right to ask for the product he wants.  Ultimately he has the right not to pay for a product that no longer meets his needs.

Secondly, I wanted to offer that this isn't a new problem and "flying communities"  (insert flight sim name here) have experienced and survived these very same problems without draconian measures.  

In times past each side has had its time in the bucket.  The solution was always found by the players and squads who switched to even things out. HT attempted several other small fixes to encourage side balance using perks and eny values. These haven't worked.

And do we the community have access to reliable data that shows that the sides are terribly uneven for large amounts of time or are we just pointing to certain peak events, like a Rook Sunday night?  For what length of time can we show data that has the Rooks with more numbers than either the BISH and KNITS combined?  If we are talking small spike events and after that BISH and KNITS have more total.... then the BISH and KNITS can handle this in the arena without HT forcing a fix.  (as they have the last several nights)  Might mean BISH and KNITS have more trouble forcing a reset as they will have to decide when or if they turn on each other but.....


With the current irrational "side loyalty" folks are refusing to switch. Folks should switch because it makes game play better when all sides are at or near to parity. This is game not a real war. Friends won’t be lost and if they are new friendships will develop as well as new enemies. At the very least  folks may actually discover a new plane or two.

Just a matter of viewpoint.  It may be irrational to you, but until you pay the other folks' AH accounts, they have a right to fly it their way.  Same thing goes for plane choice.  If a dweeb wants to fly one and only one plane, you and I might have an opinion, but it's their business what they fly, not ours.


When rooks were down folks moved over to balance the numbers. Now that the rooks have the numbers all you hear is "Rook or Die" and "I won’t betray my country" blah blah blah. It’s idiotic in the extreme.


So at one time we had people willing to change countries, and then something in the "Rook experience" suddenly caused these very same people to be unwilling to change elsewhere to even things up?  Leopards changing spots?  A mind control drug perhaps?



HT saw this was an issue and pointed out that even those folks who agree that the sides are unbalanced are unwilling to switch themselves.

I'm not sure what HT saw, I haven't seen any data.  I assume he is responding to input from the community.  Of course the unhappy folks speak louder and more often than the happy ones.  Now that he is preparing to make a change to appease some folks, he is hearing from the formerly happy ones.  Vicious circle.  If I had data that showed that the Rooks outnumbered the Knits and Bish combined on a continual basis I would be more inclined to think something had to be done.  But realistically it would have to be significantly larger numbers.  The whole reason the game is built with 3 countries is to negate lopsided numbers.  If we are going to put measures in to FORCE equal sides, then dump one of the countries and we can have just a two sided arena.  


I am all but sure HT has lost customers due to the gangbang. It is a smart business move to see to it that all sides are balanced and have an equal opportunity for fun.

I won't doubt some customers have been lost on the gangbang. I don't know of any but that is neither here nor there.  Lost ALOT more customers with the AH2 "upgrade" I'd wager.  I don't see us opening up AH1 again.  


He is forced to do something because the players are unwilling to do it themselves. Any other BS you want to wrap into it is beside the point. I am not saying I agree with the solution because I don’t. However, something needed to be done.

My input or opinions are BS.  Glad you got that out in the open.  Wouldn't want that to one of those implied things.  HT is not forced to do any one course of action.  As a businessman I agree he needs to evaluate the game play and decide if he thinks it needs to be changed.  If he wants to change it, change it.  He gets paid to make the big decisions and can monitor the bottom line.  If his bottom line looks good, then it doesn't matter if the change made some people unhappy.
 

As to strat, who cares? I surely don't...

Which is your opinion of what your gaming experience requires.  HT can put a check mark in the "Who Cares Column" for fixing the strat.  I personally think if you've had maps for two plus years that have porked Strat... either shut the strat / HQ functions off or fix them.  So my check goes in a different column.

Salute !

[anton]

Its HTCs game. Its by far the best one of it's kind available, with or without this change.

Personally I welcome the change. But then I'm the type of guy that switches from the side with most players, & I dont thnk my preffered plane is on the hit-list anyway:aok

Anton

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Sikboy
So then, it's not about History after all?

-Sik

Not if they are flying Jabos.  Looking through the 339th History, the dive bombing they did was around D-Day which would have  been B Models carrying  250 or 500 pounders.  Very few D's in action at that point.  

None of the 8th AF 51s used rockets so they shouldn't use those if they want to be 'historical"  And they should still be flying Bs with the Ds well into 45.

Might as well suck it up and take the 51Bs with bombs if they are going to be historical.  Could be worse.  They could be stuck with the plane they had before coming overseas if AH had the P39

Dan/Slack

[jdpete75]

AH isnt really a good depiction of the war.  In real thing a bomb or two would take out a hanger, not so in this case.  All those bomb craters you see on the runway, they would kill you if you decided to drive over them while taking off.  B17s NEVER took off at bases that were being attacked to serve as ackstars.  Planes with oil hits or other possibly catastrophic damage made every attempt to egress and go home safely, not so here.  You didnt have to knock down all the buildings in France and make sure they stayed down to take territory.  Very few furballs (if any?) were fought just for the sake of furballing.  Numerical majority was considered a good thing.  Now as soon as we go to a system of bombing the runway and leaving craters to kill the persistant lemings that just cant stop upping  I will be more than happy to carry 2 250lb bombs.  Oh yea you only had one life so you only got to die once with no reup