ENY disablements

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
Dok...

I do know the 'community' of which you speak. Geez but I loved that community. People didn't just care about their squads or countries, they cared about the game as well. Unfortnately, as these things grow, that sort of community becomes harder to maintain.

Funny thing is, the game is really the same as back in the late '80's and early '90's. It's the players that have changed. For me, I see a lot more people looking for instant gratification...at anyone ELSE's expense. Perhaps it's is just a function of age, but, I see too many people with a McDonald's/microwave oven  mentality...."give it to me now or I will go some place else".
 

I think it's also somewhat a reflection of our current American culture. You know, expecting The Government to regulate everything and by doing so remove the need to take any responsibility. Geez I'm almost starting to sound like a hippy.

Y'know, I still have 3 big boxes of books on WW2 planes and air combat from my "early days." And not just picture books and data sheets ... memoirs, biographies ... anything to help get inside the heads of the people who were the aces. I've moved 4 times in the last 7 years and those books always are along for the ride even though I rarely play anymore.

[Skeksis]

Originally posted by Shane
pointless?

You forgot the





Skeksis

[Grimm]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo

And, as such, you guys have the power to change the odds and style of play in the arena. By recruiting, by getting organized, by doing wacky missions that let your side have fun (as opposed to the boredom of field vultching), by actively teaching your people to fly better so you can meet superior odds and beat them.

 

DOK,
Your right on all points,  but I wanted to pipe in on this one.

When the Rooks where in the slump, This is part of what we did.  The other thing was to ask for assistance from other countries  (read as whined)

The RJO was already around  (in fact it really goes back to AW) since we really like the team work stuff.  Ghostdancer used the RJO network to spearheaded a drive to pump up the Rooks.   He probably was the one person that really put the most effort into making it more fun for Rooks.   Others did thier part,  but GD really was key.

Back then I remember the 327th running a huge bomber raid to an enemy HQ,  hundreds of B17s before the formations.   I dreamed up a Night where we all flew WildCats and Zeros.   My personal favorite was something BulletHead and I dreamed up, "Big load" where the RJO flattened all the strat in one country then flattened the other for a reset.

The point is,  Everyone can do things to help make the game more fun.   Be creative!!  More Fun helps to improve turn outs for your country.

Dok,   I have a feeling you will remember my squad, but probably not me.    

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Grimm
...
Dok,   I have a feeling you will remember my squad, but probably not me.  

I seem to recall a GRIMM back in old AW daze. My WB days are a blur as scenarios kept me pretty busy.

Funny thing was that when everyone started snickering about "lets see the Rooks win without P51's and La-7's" my first instinct was to resurrect the "Big Yak Attack." And that was the mildest of the evile plans that crossed my mind at the time.

[Grimm]

Yak attacks are Great fun!   Yup,  I was Grimm in AW too.   Been Grimm since the mid 80s.   Maybe you have seen me in BW too.


Iv been thinking,  and I can tell your approach is this.   Is it numbers balance that is important,  or is it balanced gameplay that is?    They dont have to be the same thing.

We all want good gameplay and to have a good time.  

Iv not been convinced that having balanced number will guarantee that.

BTW,  Who woke Soup up!   heheheheehe
(good to see him getting involved)

[Grimm]

I almost forgot to toss this in here...

It is Summer, Lots folks just arent flying as much as they do the rest of the year, this might also skew things

[4510]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I seem to recall a GRIMM back in old AW daze. My WB days are a blur as scenarios kept me pretty busy.

Funny thing was that when everyone started snickering about "lets see the Rooks win without P51's and La-7's" my first instinct was to resurrect the "Big Yak Attack." And that was the mildest of the evile plans that crossed my mind at the time.

Well believe it or not... the YAK is much more formidable in AH than AW...

I think the BIG YAK ATTACK would really be kicker.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by 4510
Well believe it or not... the YAK is much more formidable in AH than AW...

I think the BIG YAK ATTACK would really be kicker.

Yeah ... I flew it the other night for a few sorties.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by hitech
Dok, I belive the real answere is it is a combination of both.

If you are saying that the real answer to the imbalance problem is both action by the community and an artificial adjustment such as the current one, I respectfully disagree.

I think it is the responsibility of the players, especially those on the outnumbered side, to work to even things out, and to also make things more fun in the interim. The "leaders" of an outnumbered country should be recruiting their tails off, and should be helping to make the atmosphere in their country so good that people will want to fly there despite being outnumbered. You do it by training, co-operating, and organizing. Now, an outside force CAN help that. This applies to all three countries, as one day soon, the Rooks may have this problem again.

The problems with an outside force attempting to drive players one way or another are evident now. It has made just as many unhappy as it has made happy, and it has made some people somewhat bitter, creating something of a wedge. Further, once an outside force is introduced, the community tends to get lazy and expect the "powers that be" to fix things for them. That is wrong, and it is dangerous to that community, because the outside force can't really support the community nor can it bring them together and bring in new blood. It simply does not give them a reason to do anything, much less a reason to get serious about it. And it is those efforts that tie the community together, and make it grow, and grow stronger.

The outside force artificially adjusting the playing field merely provides a placebo with a short term fake cure, rather than improving the health of the community. Each country has its own community, and those three communities make up the community we have as a whole. The community has changed, much as the rest of society has changed. Only society can fix itself, and only the community in AH can fix itself.

[hitech]

I agree with most of your accesment Virgil from a philisophical level.

But consider a few thing.

1. If the community had done what you belive they should HTC would not have changed anything.

2. We have resisted changing any thing for a long time, And out first attempt and providing a country moving force was done only when it became and issue (perk multiplier this was a few years back). This was done to effect other issues as minimly as posible.

3. This is still a buissness, not just a community. Neither  can survive with out each.

4. If I belive the country imbalance is making the game less fun, and in the end fun is what creates a bigger player base, and hence more revanue for HTC, dose it not become our responsiblity to ensure it happens?


HiTech

[storch]

Originally posted by hitech
I agree with most of your accesment Virgil from a philisophical level.

But consider a few thing.

1. If the community had done what you belive they should HTC would not have changed anything.

2. We have resisted changing any thing for a long time, And out first attempt and providing a country moving force was done only when it became and issue (perk multiplier this was a few years back). This was done to effect other issues as minimly as posible.

3. This is still a buissness, not just a community. Neither  can survive with out each.

4. If I belive the country imbalance is making the game less fun, and in the end fun is what creates a bigger player base, and hence more revanue for HTC, dose it not become our responsiblity to ensure it happens?


HiTech

Here's a suggestion,  tell yankee what you want to say and have her type it for you.  I don't get what you are saying.  Not a jab I really don't get the message.

[SlapShot]

I apologize for the double post, but since the vein of this thread has moved in the same direction as to what I posted.

................

This is the way I see it from my experiences in the last 2+ years ...

Land Grab - win the reset, has been part of this game since I joined and was there before I joined and during this time period, there was never an imbalance in the arena as we see today, except for when the Rooks were in the bucket. With that, I don't believe that the "Land Grab" is the sole variable that has thrown things out of wack.

I still believe that its a comraderie thing ...

When I started (as a Knight), I remember there were some large forces in the arena.

Arabian Knights (Bish), MAW (Knights) and USMC (Knights). I don't ever remember a single squad on the Rooks that had the influence that these squads had. I could be wrong and don't mean to slight any long time Rooks squads as well as any other long time squads in the Bish and Knights. This is just what I remember.

I seemed that the AKs were the driving force for the Bish. Whereever the AKs went, so did the Bish. Same for the MAW and USMC. Whereever the MAW/USMC went, so went the Knights. AKs were the premier base takers for the Bish and the MAW/USMC were the premier base takers for the Knights.

I remember many a clash between the MAW and AKs. Word would get out on country channel that the AKs were attacking field X and MAW would run there to spoil it. I know when the MAW went for a base, the AKs would show up to spoil the party. Back then, bringing home AK scalps was the cats meow.

Now, what happened to these squads and their influence.

I believe that the AKs had a falling out within their ranks. What ever happened to AKNimtz ? ... along with the disgusting beating that they took and still take for creating AKDesert. Between the 2 of those events, it appears that the AKs have kinda faded into the background and since then, the Bish really haven't had the mojo.

The MAW ... well I know for a fact that some of the key people on that squad had real life things to deal with and some got burned out. Since then, the MAW has also drifted into the background and doesn't quite carry the influence that they once had in Knightdom.

The USMC ... don't really know the story there, but USGrim does not seem to play as much as he use to, and I believe that he is/was the driving force for the USMC as 40DogMAW is for the MAW, and he doesn't play as much as he use to either. Don't really know who the driving force for the AKs was, but I will take a stab at it ... AKNimitz ... I don't believe that he plays anymore.

I can speak for the Knights ... when 40Dog or Grim started directing the force/attack, people would jump on board immediately and things would happen. Their overall community respect for these guys was all that was needed to rally the troops.

I once witnessed a night where the Knights were down to 3 bases, on the verge of a reset. Knights couldn't find their butts with both hands. 40Dog logged on and started to direct counter-attacks. Well, in a matter of 3 hours, not only did the Knights fend off the reset, they actually reset the whole arena. It was amazing. Only other person that I saw accomplish this type of turnaround was Grim.

Knights did have something like the RJO ... The MAW, USMC, and FreeBirds (another strong squad) started running ops together and when that happened, it was very hard to stop the Knights.

Then came the RJO ... Rooks were constantly getting a beating and probably the worst beating in the history of AH. They decided to do something about it, and with hard work and cooperation, they overcame and have become the dominate country to date.

The task of creating this RJO and the results is why I believe that the Rooks have the best comraderie in the game. They worked together, and dug themselfs out of a very deep hole. That is what creates very strong bonds between people ... working for a common goal and succeeding.

When the RJO came into play, the driving forces in the Bish and Knights were slowly disappearing into the background and there is not, I believe, at this point, any real driving forces steering the Bish and the Knights.

Why do people want to fly for the Rooks ... cause for the most part, they have fun TOGETHER.

Sorry for being longwinded.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by hitech
I agree with most of your accesment Virgil from a philisophical level.

But consider a few thing.

1. If the community had done what you belive they should HTC would not have changed anything.

2. We have resisted changing any thing for a long time, And out first attempt and providing a country moving force was done only when it became and issue (perk multiplier this was a few years back). This was done to effect other issues as minimly as posible.

3. This is still a buissness, not just a community. Neither  can survive with out each.

4. If I belive the country imbalance is making the game less fun, and in the end fun is what creates a bigger player base, and hence more revanue for HTC, dose it not become our responsiblity to ensure it happens?


HiTech

I understand completely your position as a business. And appreciate that position. As a small business owner I'm well aware of the need for a survival instinct.

You were indeed correct to resist making any change for as long as possible, and to make as small a change as possible.

I also understand that you did what you felt was in the best interest.

All I'm saying is that I'm not at all sure that it will bring about the needed change. I fear that the outside adjustment will be used as a crutch to allow things to limp along as they are. Rather than used as something to prop things up while other efforts for improvement are being made.

As the outside force, you can only do so much, despite actually having control over a lot of the game. As you well know, if you go too far, you do more harm than good.

I've said it elsewhere on the boards, I'll say it here. We've been told the current system will remain in place, with some minor adjustments, for some time to see what happens, I can and will live with that. I have not complained about it since, and I won't.

But I've already seen the problem. Rather than hearing how the Knights and Bishops are recruiting and organizing, most of what is heard from each of those countries is "hah ha ha, you don't have your little uber planes, you can't run, and your horde is nothing without your ponies and lal la's." It looks a lot like the "crabs in a bucket" scenario to me. I saw little or no efforts by the other countries to recruit or organize before, and I'm not seeing any now. All I'm seeing is some of them cheering and giggling about the Rooks getting handicapped when they have numbers. I'm sorry, but I see that as a crutch that keeps those countries from growing stronger, rather than one that helps them make it through a rough time. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. If they do grow and get stronger, you can send me some crow. I've got enough beer to wash it down.

[Zanth]

To keep this in perspective, didn't your own squad decide to move the biggest team in the midst of all this to?  That certainly was not a help, this all got to the point where Hitech had to do something. and here we are.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by SlapShot
I apologize for the double post, but since the vein of this thread has moved in the same direction as to what I posted.

................

This is the way I see it from my experiences in the last 2+ years ...

Land Grab - win the reset, has been part of this game since I joined and was there before I joined and during this time period, there was never an imbalance in the arena as we see today, except for when the Rooks were in the bucket. With that, I don't believe that the "Land Grab" is the sole variable that has thrown things out of wack.

I still believe that its a comraderie thing ...

When I started (as a Knight), I remember there were some large forces in the arena.

Arabian Knights (Bish), MAW (Knights) and USMC (Knights). I don't ever remember a single squad on the Rooks that had the influence that these squads had. I could be wrong and don't mean to slight any long time Rooks squads as well as any other long time squads in the Bish and Knights. This is just what I remember.

I seemed that the AKs were the driving force for the Bish. Whereever the AKs went, so did the Bish. Same for the MAW and USMC. Whereever the MAW/USMC went, so went the Knights. AKs were the premier base takers for the Bish and the MAW/USMC were the premier base takers for the Knights.

I remember many a clash between the MAW and AKs. Word would get out on country channel that the AKs were attacking field X and MAW would run there to spoil it. I know when the MAW went for a base, the AKs would show up to spoil the party. Back then, bringing home AK scalps was the cats meow.

Now, what happened to these squads and their influence.

I believe that the AKs had a falling out within their ranks. What ever happened to AKNimtz ? ... along with the disgusting beating that they took and still take for creating AKDesert. Between the 2 of those events, it appears that the AKs have kinda faded into the background and since then, the Bish really haven't had the mojo.

The MAW ... well I know for a fact that some of the key people on that squad had real life things to deal with and some got burned out. Since then, the MAW has also drifted into the background and doesn't quite carry the influence that they once had in Knightdom.

The USMC ... don't really know the story there, but USGrim does not seem to play as much as he use to, and I believe that he is/was the driving force for the USMC as 40DogMAW is for the MAW, and he doesn't play as much as he use to either. Don't really know who the driving force for the AKs was, but I will take a stab at it ... AKNimitz ... I don't believe that he plays anymore.

I can speak for the Knights ... when 40Dog or Grim started directing the force/attack, people would jump on board immediately and things would happen. Their overall community respect for these guys was all that was needed to rally the troops.

I once witnessed a night where the Knights were down to 3 bases, on the verge of a reset. Knights couldn't find their butts with both hands. 40Dog logged on and started to direct counter-attacks. Well, in a matter of 3 hours, not only did the Knights fend off the reset, they actually reset the whole arena. It was amazing. Only other person that I saw accomplish this type of turnaround was Grim.

Knights did have something like the RJO ... The MAW, USMC, and FreeBirds (another strong squad) started running ops together and when that happened, it was very hard to stop the Knights.

Then came the RJO ... Rooks were constantly getting a beating and probably the worst beating in the history of AH. They decided to do something about it, and with hard work and cooperation, they overcame and have become the dominate country to date.

The task of creating this RJO and the results is why I believe that the Rooks have the best comraderie in the game. They worked together, and dug themselfs out of a very deep hole. That is what creates very strong bonds between people ... working for a common goal and succeeding.

When the RJO came into play, the driving forces in the Bish and Knights were slowly disappearing into the background and there is not, I believe, at this point, any real driving forces steering the Bish and the Knights.

Why do people want to fly for the Rooks ... cause for the most part, they have fun TOGETHER.

Sorry for being longwinded.

Amen. Slapshot has just posted the history that shows what I am saying.

He has shown why Rooks don't want to switch sides.

He has shown why the Rooks have grown.

He has shown why the Bishops and Knights have become weaker.

Just because I fly Rook does not mean I hate the Knights or Bishops, nor does it mean I want them kept down. Quite the contrary. I have friends who fly for both countries. Hell, I even like Shane, despite his big mouth.

But pay heed to the wise words posted here and elsewhere by SlapShot. I've flown with him, and I've flown against him. I've seen him swap sides, and I know he's been flying with the best of all three sides. He's been saying the same thing over and over again about the differences between the countries. He has no agenda, he is telling the truth. He's been telling people whythe disparityin numbers exists, and  no one seems to listen, or even want to listen.

Until the problems SlapShot has been trying to get people to see are dealt with the imbalance will continue to exist, and the community will continue to suffer. I don't think there's anything HTC can do if the players don't fix the problem.