109F-4 vs. La7

[Meyer]

Originally posted by Kweassa
There's no reason for the Frederick  to own the Lavochkin. Everything is in favor to the La7.

Not really,  the F-4 have a lower wing load.

[GScholz]

Originally posted by Meyer
Not really,  the F-4 have a lower wing load.

Not in AH2 obviously.

[Dead Man Flying]

The La-7 in no way comes close to outturning the Spit V in AH2.

I'm sure happy when they try though.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
The La-7 in no way comes close to outturning the Spit V in AH2.

I'm sure happy when they try though.

-- Todd/Leviathn

On a similiar note, a P51D with good flap work can outturn any LGay7. Just ask Jozepi. In fact, the P51D can outturn just about anything but the 'pure' angles fighters in AHII.

Zazen

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
The La-7 in no way comes close to outturning the Spit V in AH2.

I'm sure happy when they try though.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Yea but they sure can run away, far, far, away....

[straffo]

Originally posted by GScholz
Was fighting an La7 today in my 109F-4, and I noticed to my terror that the La7 now outturns the 109F-4. In AH1 I never had any difficulties outturning La7s in the F-4, so what changed? La7 turns better, or 109F-4 worse?

As you are a squadie and I know you can handle the truth : YOU JUST SUCK


cheers

[GScholz]

I know ...

[Glasses]

Why would you want to out turn a P-51 in a G10 when you could instead just out climb the sucker. While his turning using flaps to get  a gun solution on you you just ht the good Ol MW50 and spiral your arse above him, then just  use a lil rudder in a slip and plink his shiny but to pieces

....And then again ol Messerchmitts have been mean to me lately so I'm sticking  to the Focke Wulfs  for now , Kurt Tank never fails old four eyes

[Glasses]

Why would you want to out turn a P-51 in a G10 when you could instead just out climb the sucker. While he's turning using flaps to get  a gun solution on you you just hit the good Ol MW50 and spiral your arse above him, then just  use a lil rudder in a slip and plink his shiny butt to pieces

....And then again ol Messerchmitts have been mean to me lately so I'm sticking  to the Focke Wulfs  for now , Kurt Tank never fails old four eyes

[Sable]

Originally posted by Glasses
Why would you want to out turn a P-51 in a G10 when you could instead just out climb the sucker. While he's turning using flaps to get  a gun solution on you you just hit the good Ol MW50 and spiral your arse above him, then just  use a lil rudder in a slip and plink his shiny butt to pieces

Well a decent P-51 pilots sees the 109 go up and realizes he can't catch him in the climb ... unloads for some energy and then makes a 4-5g beak turn into the 109 when he comes down with a little bit of roll out of plane.  And you end up with a stalemate until another plane comes along - this happens to me every time a good stick in a G10 catches my P-51 low E 1v1.  If the P-51 tries to climb up after the G10 it gets roped and shot, and if the 109 tries to out turn the P-51 it usually gets shot.

[Virage]

What is the wing loading for the La7 ?

[bozon]

I'm wondering if this is due to the La-7 almost always being low on gas, with twice the burn rate at full power in AH2.

La7 is always low on gas with its beer-can sized tank. It's the P38 that is heavier on fuel now if he still wants to make 30 min sorties.

I haven't tried the La7 since the beta days, but back then it could handle extremly low speeds and count on the engine to pull it through the turn. I hoped that with the new torque model, flying 100 mph in a flat turn with full throttle would be extremely hard. it isn't.

it's turning circle (not rate) is now about as small as a spit 9's.

Bozon

[Tilt]

La7 best sustained turn performance @ full weight throttle set to full mil no WEP (2400rpm @1000mm mercury)

At 1000m

IAS between 320and 340 KM/h

Turn radius approx 315m

Bank angle approx 71 deg


turn time per 360 Deg approx 21 secs


At 5000m

IAS between 280and 290 KM/h

Turn radius approx 485m

Bank angle approx 64 deg


turn time per 360 Deg approx 30  secs

My understanding was that the F4 had good vert figures for its day (but the La7 was not of the 109F4's day)

So the best comparison would probably the combat turn (chandelle?) figure.

This is heavily ruddered a half turn climbing under zoom conditions combining both vert and horizontal manouverabiulity in one test. A sort of std VVS indicator to its combat (manouverability) effectiveness.

For the La7

start condition > end condition

alt 1000 > 2170m
speed 560 > 270 Km/h
time 24 secs

alt 5000 > 5940m
speed 460 > 240 Km/h
time 23 secs

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Virage
What is the wing loading for the La7 ?

Compared to a Spit IX

Note how the advantage swings between fully loaded and near empty weights


Compared to 109G2

This is pretty old and not updated for some time.......the 109 power figure could be in error.

[Karnak]

Tilt,

That is comparing it to a Spitfire F.Mk IX with a Merlin 61 (like we have in AH) and at full load which includes 1,000lbs of bombs.  The max HP listed is only true for a Merlin 61 Spitfire MK IX, not for the Spitfire Mk IX in general.  The max HP for the Spitfire Mk IX was over 1,700.  I don't know how much it was at +25lbs boost.

Would you fight an La-7 with a fully bombed Spitfire Mk IX in AH?