Author Topic: 109F-4 vs. La7  (Read 1940 times)

Offline GScholz

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109F-4 vs. La7
« on: September 01, 2004, 08:58:36 AM »
Was fighting an La7 today in my 109F-4, and I noticed to my terror that the La7 now outturns the 109F-4. In AH1 I never had any difficulties outturning La7s in the F-4, so what changed? La7 turns better, or 109F-4 worse?
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Offline ra

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2004, 09:20:59 AM »
Maybe the elgay was low on fuel.

Offline JB73

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2004, 10:12:58 AM »
depending on speed i have found f4 worse.

havent flown lala since first week of release so i dont know about it.
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Urchin

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2004, 10:38:09 AM »
I noticed the same thing, I think the La7 turns better.

Offline GScholz

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2004, 11:10:45 AM »
If the La7 turns like a Spit now there is no excuse left for leaving it unperked. Every other plane is a La7 now.
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Offline VO101_Isegrim

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2004, 01:17:07 PM »
I think it should be correct. The La-7 was an excellent turner, with very high power to weight ratio. It also had leading edge slats, like the 109, plus it`s wingloading is lower.

I don`t expect either 109s or Spitfires being able to turn with a Lavochkin (historically, not game wise).

It depends a lot on altitude, though. Soviet tests found that as the Lavochkins power fell off, the 109G could match it`s (La-5FN)turn rate at 7000m.

Offline JB73

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2004, 01:40:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VO101_Isegrim
It depends a lot on altitude, though. Soviet tests found that as the Lavochkins power fell off, the 109G could match it`s (La-5FN)turn rate at 7000m.
that is a very different situation.


a 5 VS a 109G probably a 6 in the tests.

GS is talking about the 109F with is one of the best turners in the game, and was IRL.


very different monster,
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Flyboy

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 02:19:27 PM »
La7s turn batter now, i have noticed that too

on a side note, JB73 whats with your avatar?!?

Offline leitwolf

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2004, 02:35:00 PM »
same here, had a La-7 enganging a turn fight with me flying a F-4 and instead of the expected easy kill it ended in a nightmare of a fight .. i survived.. barely. After ~5minutes and a friendly showing up, the Lala engaged it's warp drive and escaped into hyperspace.
veni, vidi, vulchi.

Offline JB73

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2004, 02:45:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
on a side note, JB73 whats with your avatar?!?
what's with all the blinking stuff?

heheh thats the point!
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Kweassa

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2004, 05:02:53 PM »
The La-7 always turned better than the Bf109F-4 even in AH1. Except, in AH1 it was very marginal, and incredibly harder to just plain outturn a F-4 in a La-7.

 So it would usually come down to circumstances and energy situation, and depending on it it wasn't too hard for a F-4 to outturn a La-7.

 However, the readjusted flight modelling of AH2 shows some very different characteristics of various planes at low speeds.

 For instance, one of the most noticeable increases in maneuverability is associated with the US planes with flap use.

 The stabilization due to flaps is so noticeably higher and effective than AH1, that I rarely have the galls to engage a P-51 in a Bf109G-10 toe to toe anymore. Most US planes can start using flaps at least 60~200mph IAS higher than other planes - and by the time the Bf109G-10 drops down very low speeds to use its own flaps the P-51 has already decisively outturned it.

 In turn, the different characteristics have effected the 109s in a harsher way. Pulling high AoA near the verge of stall is very risky now and the plane is very much destabilized in the roll axis. Planes like the Typhoon, also seem to turn a bit worse than it used to in AH1.

 Another surprising fact I've found out, was that outturning a N1K2-J in a SpitV wasn't so easy anymore. Ofcourse, my adversary was an experienced pilot, but experience or no, outturning N1K2s in SpitVs were never that hard.

 The N1K2 doesn't seem to have changed much, but the SpitV isn't what it used to be in AH1. It pulls tight turns, but you can't dare to push hard rudder and go near verge of stall at the same time - the resulting stall would leave you in a flat-spin.

 ....

 So, I think its the result of various little changes to various different planes that draws out very different conclusions than compared to AH1.

Offline Widewing

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2004, 06:35:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
I noticed the same thing, I think the La7 turns better.


I agree, it turns better in AH2. I got into a low-speed scissor, then turn fight with one while flying a P-38 and it took more than 5 seconds to kill it! ;)

I'm  wondering if this is due to the La-7 almost always being low on gas, with twice the burn rate at full power in AH2.

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Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Angus

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2004, 07:15:00 PM »
WOT???? Lala a turnmonster now?
And I've been outturning it in  a P51 :confused:

But seriously, I always thought the 109F was an excellent turner, and I remember testing it in AH I vs a Spit IX, it was a matter of loadout which plane turned better.
But now, of course, one can see the La-7 deploy it's slots, so maybe there are some turn-masters around?
Heck, with all those Lala's around I'm grabbing my 109 and going for a hunt ;)
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Offline flyingaround

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2004, 07:23:48 PM »
Odd....I seem to be able to out turn an LA7 in a 109G10.  I'm sure many things need to be factored in, like pilot ability, relative E states, joystick setup, etc, etc...

If we talkin' about stall fighting 109F vs. LA7, the F OWNES the lala.
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Offline Kweassa

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109F-4 vs. La7
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2004, 07:51:20 PM »
Quote
If we talkin' about stall fighting 109F vs. LA7, the F OWNES the lala.

 
 There's no reason for the Frederick  to own the Lavochkin. Everything is in favor to the La7.