Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY

[gunnss]

Originally posted by Arlo
Actually .. it's still the weekend - being the Laborday holiday and all or this thread woulda gotten lockdown at about 8 this morning central time from topic and first post alone.

{edt} Hmmm ... or maybe not. Seems there was a thread locked today. Hmmmmm ....

Dunno about you but I am at work.......  24 hr day watches in the FAA

Gunns

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Arlo
Are you saying that HT should have waited almost a whole year to implement the horde ENY restriction so the other chess pieces could have their fair share of "unfairness?" Because if HT is to give into the human dynamics part of this equation then it won't stop with the ENY restriction.
...

No ... only trying to show just why some of the reaction has been as fierce as its been, and why "chess piece" loyalty was maybe underestimated.

Bear in mind that the system put in place punishes only one side for a situation which arose naturally, as it has for 17 years.  They are being given no reward for changing sides, other than to get back the planes they had before - whoop-de-doo. And the system has many holes in it which make things seem more imbalanced in ways.

Maybe the genre has grown to the point where you need ENY. But if you drop something like this in, and only one portion of the population gets shafted by it, then that isn't fair either.

    -DoK

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Coolridr
Here's mu only problem..The 339thFG was REAL late war...only existed about a year..They only flew the 51B for a real short time...They were a 51D squad...we are modeled after a historic squad and like to fly that way..we have tried to move our squad night to less popular nights to fly but that still hasn't worked...we didn't choose the plane as much as we chose the squad..now we can't hold our squad night and be happy about it....we took a vote to change countries..and at was 75% to stay rook because of the friendships and teamwork we have there...and to put it out there this game darn near lost an entire squad in the matter of 1 day. There has to be a better way to balance sides..the way we are doing it now only causes hate and discontent...and with lack of a better game to play (as far as MMOG flight sims go) what choice do we have but to stay here....HT has us all over a barrel with this

My respect and admiration for other historically based squadrons in Aces High knows no bounds ... but ... may I make a suggestion (just a suggestion, mind you)?

First ...

Now .... granted .... VF-17 doesn't have as great a chance of losing it's pet ride in the MA as much as the 339th FG does. BUT ... even if we did ... we, long ago, learned that occasionally we may have to widen our historical point of view some. By this I mean the historical relationship VF-17 had with earlier squadrons.

The commanding officer of VF-17 (the only one it had prior to the squad being disbanded and reestablished later as an entire new entity flying F6Fs on the West coast) was also the commanding officer of an F4F squadron that participated in Operation Torch (Escort Fighting Squadron 29 or VGF-29). Kleinman and Halford both served with VF-5 - land based out of Guadalcanal during it's darkest days.

The virtual VF-17 decided long ago to be willing to fly anything blue (we have, since then, adapted to flying anything - period - when blue isn't available. More on that in a bit). We feel an historical connection in the F4F and the F4U. Many pilots got their start in one then went on to be the core nucleus of squadrons formed flying the other.

Secondly (and this is no slam on the MA, so retract claws now, kittens) ....

The MA is not ... nor will it ever be an historical setting. The CT can't mimic it perfectly either ... but it tries. And VF-17 flies both.

But flying the CT regularly requires members of VF-17 to give up thier preferred ride on a regular basis (we're talking F4U setups generally being rare there). So .... we fly other planes when it's not there. And we tend to switch sides to balance the arena. And you know what? Even though we're an historically based squadron devoted to the F4U ... we have fun doing it.

When we want to fly F4Us we can go to the MA. If, by chance, the ENY was to somehow affect the availability of the F4U-1 ... ahem ... we would switch sides and fly it. We should have switched anyhow if numbers ended up THAT extremely lop-sided.

But what we'd rather be doing is flying the F4U in an historical setting against it's traditional foes. Eh ... we all gotta make sacrifices sometimes.

To sum up. There's bound to be some historical connections that your virtual representation of the 339th FG can find to older units that flew the B modell (or even the P-40). But it's just a suggestion. Takes a lil give and take.

[simshell]

i dont think the game should be unfair for anybody i dont care if the rooks were gangbang for a while  and this some how gives you the right to gangbang us bishs into the ground and then pat your self on the back for winning a very lopsided fight


this ENY thing trys to make the huge monster team whoever that might be to a more level playing field  sure its still going to be unfair right now even with the ENY thing but it makes it much more fair we 10 players defend a base with 10 la7s and you come in with 30 202s now would it be more fair that you to have LA7s? i think not

perks dont work and you hear how alot of players have 200000000 perks in the bank


o yea its my 15$ to and i dont want to face 3to1 odds ever sunday

[B17Skull12]

Originally posted by Coolridr
Here's mu only problem..The 339thFG was REAL late war...only existed about a year..They only flew the 51B for a real short time...They were a 51D squad...we are modeled after a historic squad and like to fly that way..we have tried to move our squad night to less popular nights to fly but that still hasn't worked...we didn't choose the plane as much as we chose the squad..now we can't hold our squad night and be happy about it....we took a vote to change countries..and at was 75% to stay rook because of the friendships and teamwork we have there...and to put it out there this game darn near lost an entire squad in the matter of 1 day. There has to be a better way to balance sides..the way we are doing it now only causes hate and discontent...and with lack of a better game to play (as far as MMOG flight sims go) what choice do we have but to stay here....HT has us all over a barrel with this

I am the CO of a historical squad JG7.  They are late war squad that flew a few 190's and 109's and tons of 262s.  but im not whining am i?  i can live with flying early war planes, so can the rest of my squaddies.  in fact i love to fly 109F4's even when there is no eny limiter on.

[Urchin]

Dunno, when I first started I believe Knights were in the bucket.  Then it was rooks, so I harangued my squad till they switched to Rooks.  Now its knights/bish, although sometimes really early AM EST Rooks are in the hole, so I switch to them if I'm flying alone.

But I (and most of the people I've been in squads with, but not all) am more concerned with finding a good fight than "winning the war".  If one is concerned about winning the "war" it makes sense for them to want to have overwhelming numbers, and the "best" planes available.  Hence the whining in-game and on the BBS.. "winning the war" has become more important to a majority of people in AH than finding a good A2A fight.

[Goobman]

Originally posted by Arlo
Was this intended to be a shining example?

Take it however u want. But as far as setting a "shining" example....that sure wasn't going to come from you and your rhetoric.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Goobman
Take it however u want. But as far as setting a "shining" example....that sure wasn't going to come from you and your rhetoric.

Did you get offended? Gonna even bother to ask yourself why or is it just easier to assume that I hate your guts or sumpin? Take a breath and read it all again. Pretend you're not even in the conversation.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
ENY should probably never get above 30 for the obvious customer relations reasons. Assuming that this stuff stays in place, of course.

If you think HT is making uber-bucks from this, you probably never worked at a game company.

From earlier in the thread. It's simple .... it's elegant ...

Why not?

Add a string (or whatever you code gurus do) to stop the eny disablement at 30.

If HT's willing and able to code this, I'd say it's worth a try.

I'll second it, DoK. May this diminish if not entirely end the whining on this one aspect of the game so we can all focus on whining about something else.

[Redd]

Originally posted by Urchin


But I (and most of the people I've been in squads with, but not all) am more concerned with finding a good fight than "winning the war".  If one is concerned about winning the "war" it makes sense for them to want to have overwhelming numbers, and the "best" planes available.  Hence the whining in-game and on the BBS.. "winning the war" has become more important to a majority of people in AH than finding a good A2A fight.

I don't think it's the "winning the war" solely.

I think the fact is in the arena now people aren't looking for a "good" fight  - they are purely looking for a fight where they have the advantage in numbers and plane type, and will not consider fighting under any other circumstances.

More and more people are starting to fly like this - it's the "Zazen Factor".

Scores/stats will always cause this as a byproduct  - it's a shame the game needs them to keep a large chunk of the player base happy. The most fun times/fights have always been during beta periods , when people aren't caring about their score.




Just my 2 bob

[Arlo]

I wonder if getting rid of the ENY restriction along with the scorepage will cause more or less whining in the long run?

[Jackal1]

Rooks act like they are the only ones that gets nabbed by the ENY lockdown.
  This  morning we got locked out (Bish).
  Couldn`t fly the 38, etc. Wheew , was the worst 15 minutes of the day. rofl

[ROC]

Never going to get rid of the whining.  That's why the eny thing is here to begin with.

Arlo Typed "(ROCrats logs on)

SERVER: ROOK side at limit

___ Fly Bishops
___ Fly Knights
___ Wait in cue for an opening "


Missed one. (ROCrats logs out)

It's choice.  Like I said, I'm just one person.  I'll like it or I won't

I believe that placing limits on a game is paramount to saying your players are idiots and cannot control themselves.  I prefer a different format, and frankly, if in fact the players cannot control themselves, then the community is far worse off than an eny enforcement will ever solve.

It's a matter of choice where I chose to spend what little free time I do have, and that's all it is.  Hopefully it's enjoyable, and if the masses like it this way, then that is fine, but I don't have to.  I don't need someone managing my free time when all I want to do is log in and enjoy myself.   If I don't, then again, I will find something to do that I do enjoy.  Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?  Choice is a good thing.   Beats me why theres all the fuss, when the core argument that has been lobbied against me is that I'm selfish and don't care what the other players have to contend with.

I am, and I don't.  I log in for my own reasons, lifes funny that way.

When a playing field is simply available and level, then the game will equal itself out.  Ebbs and Flows.  It works.  When people start trying to manage based on complaints of fairness, they have let themselfes wide open to spend the remaining time developing the games rules instead of the games features.  Once you start trying to define "fair" you have to keep going.  It's not "fair" now.  I just logged in, I didn't schedule it, and I didn't pre-authorize my flight time.  

I should have, there were 90 Bish and 110 Rooks.  YeGawds, someone should have been all over telling some of the rooks to leave.  That wasn't fair.  Now, I know, I had a half hour to kill, and probably should have, in all fairness, asked the 5 guys in my squad if we wanted to change sides.  Theres 20 minutes killed for the logistics, 5min to get up, 5 min to fly and I'm outta there.  

YeeeeeeeHowdeeeHo that's some Fun Today!!


Get real.  Now since that wasn't very nice or fair of me, HT should have enabled an even balance thing.  Since it isn't "fair" to log in if someone is outnumberd.  I can't make that choice, don't have time to figure it out, nor interest in doing so, which means someone else will have to do it.  Better dismantle squads though, they won't work.

Let's go even farther, let's be "fair.

Auto Distribute players based on Numbers.  Now, you better not auto rotate players so all the good ones get on early and get on one side, for crying out loud, let's be fair.  You have to distribute players based on the K/D cause That's what really matters.  Can't have the top 3 on the same side, or 20 newbs on one team, divide up the players Evenly based on score.  Let's be fair now.

Where do you stop?  You Can't, so why start?  Pendulums swing, sometimes they meet in the middle, sometimes it's right, sometimes it's left, but it's in constant flux and motion.  That's nature, that's life, and that's not a bad thing.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by ROCrats
Never going to get rid of the whining.  That's why the eny thing is here to begin with.

Arlo Typed "(ROCrats logs on)

SERVER: ROOK side at limit

___ Fly Bishops
___ Fly Knights
___ Wait in cue for an opening "


Missed one. (ROCrats logs out)
 

No ... it was implied. It actually was the point (which you came really close to getting). There are worse things that could be instituted with fewer options. HT didn't (and probably will never) go to the extreme measure I gave you as an example. You have the option to log off if you're pissed about something in the game no matter WHAT limitations are involved (and again there will always be limitations involved).

But ... like I said again ... you have options.

• You can temporarily bite the bullet and fly a rickety old plane while you swarm over your opponent and win the war anyway.
• You can switch sides and ride your favorite slick ride while you help your former foe fight against overwhelming odds.
• You can talk your immediate rook family into joining you which may end up allowing everyone to fly their favorite slick rides.
• If you talk enough of them into it you may even "give the other side a taste of the horrible icky medicine your being 'forced' to swallow."
• You can log off and pout and mope.
• You can get over it.
• You can quit.
• You can get over it and come back.

If you don't like it ... someone else loves it. It's probably akin to that pendulum thang you was talkin' `bout. Btw ... pendulums only continue to swing if force is regularly applied. If no force is involved they ... eventually .. slowly ... stop.

Inversely, they can be stopped dead in their tracks if force is applied, as well. Of course, someone may stubbornly decide to keep applying force to start it again.

As far as players being idiots are concerned. Alot of them are. If there's any doubt in the matter, they'll do their best try to lay that to rest here in the forums. But what HT did wasn't reflecting that. The reaction some are having sure is.

And we all got limits on our time, amigo. Should be yet another reason to not be bull-headed stubborn about refusing to switch sides. I'd only ask HT to get rid of the 12 hour moratorium on switching back once parity returns.

And I'm sorry it takes your squad 20 minutes to figure out how to auger and switch sides. I suspect you're just telling me that to garner that sympathy though.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Then why was it acceptable for the Rooks to be the most outnumbered side for almost a year? I wasn't around for this, but enough people have told me what it was like (with 8x10 color screen-shots).

I was a Rook then, from the time I started flying here until they got out of the bucket.  The difference is in that case it was one country consistently with low numbers, and an ebb and flow of majority between the remaining to countries.  But even ignoring the fact that was 1/3rd affected as compaired to the opposite case where it is 2/3rds affected, iirc was typically 120/150/150 not 130/130/190.  In other words, as I remember it, the in the bucket margin was on average smaller than the horde margin.