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Author Topic: Guns don't kill people, nah.  (Read 2043 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Guns don't kill people, nah.
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2004, 05:42:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
So you carry a gun because they carry guns, and they carry guns because they carry guns..They carry guns because they carry guns....  Sounds like a great model for society, I wonder why more countries don't deploy it.


- Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence.  

- The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

- American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.





...-Gixer


Maybe you could explain then, why states that allow citizens to carry and conceal, have a lower % of violent crimes than that of states that do not allow conceal and carry?  Naturally we're talking registered gun owners who are properly permitted to conceal and carry.
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Offline Chortle

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Guns don't kill people, nah.
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2004, 05:52:37 PM »
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That's amazing Maverick. How does that work? (given two people who are equally prepared to use their weapons?)

- Genuinely interested. What's stopping the bloke with the gun just shooting before the knifeman gets too close?

Ravs
I thought that too. I think he's referring to the Tueller Defense Link, I just googled it so know nothing beyond that it relates to a holstered weapon.
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Offline ravells

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« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2004, 05:57:13 PM »
Extremely interesting article, thanks for posting, chortle.

Ravs
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Offline Gixer

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« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2004, 05:58:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Maybe you could explain then, why states that allow citizens to carry and conceal, have a lower % of violent crimes than that of states that do not allow conceal and carry?  Naturally we're talking registered gun owners who are properly permitted to conceal and carry.



I'm sure the percentage of crime,injuries deaths relating to guns in those states still far exceeds other industrilised countries. How does it compare to Japan for instance where gun ownership is almost non existent?

Saying that gun ownership reduces crime is a desperate argument.



...-Gixer
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Guns don't kill people, nah.
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2004, 06:23:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
So, the gun nuts aspire to attain the wisdom of Archie Bunker.

lol..that kind of figures. :rofl


Im not a gun nut.
In fact I dont even own a gun.

Not yet anyway. Adn the only reason I say that is Im thinking of starting to collect antique firearms

But I whole heartedly support  the right to own one.

  Thing is anyone who wants to kill can.
Anyone who wants a gun badly enough can get one legally or not.
Hell for that matter I can make a crude gun using nothing more then items I have hanging around my workshop in about 1/2 hour
  Gun laws are nothing more then feelgood laws that accomplish little more then to punish law abiding people from having them.
The VAST majority of gun crimes are done by people who do not legally own them. So whats the point in the laws?

Criminals couldnt care less about gun laws or any other kind of law for that matter.
Thats why they are called Criminals.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Guns don't kill people, nah.
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2004, 07:08:22 PM »
quote:Originally posted by Martlet
    117 Americans die each day from automobiles.
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
LMFAO what a refrence to make.

LOL too funny, think of another.  :rofl



...-Gixer


Actually I think its a damn good comparison and a good example of the silliness of gun laws.
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Offline capt. apathy

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Guns don't kill people, nah.
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2004, 07:15:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
I'm sure the percentage of crime,injuries deaths relating to guns in those states still far exceeds other industrilised countries. How does it compare to Japan for instance where gun ownership is almost non existent?

Saying that gun ownership reduces crime is a desperate argument.

...-Gixer


different countries have a completely different culture, which is likely to have a bigger effect on crime/violence stats than gun laws.

as far as your 'desperate argument' comment, I guess falling back on the truth would seem desperate to sum. :confused:

not only do areas with more restrictions on gun ownership by law-abiding citizens, have more crime, and more violent crime.

  but there have been a couple smaller cities (one was here in Oregon, not sure where the others were) that passed laws a few years back (it's been awhile, maybe 15 years), these laws required the head of household to own a fire-arm, unless otherwise prohibited by law.  in ever case the crime rates dropped.  not huge drops (since for you to be able to pass a law like that you'd have to have a population that was very supportive and likely already owned guns) but consistently and in every city that tried this.  home invasion crimes, like burglaries became almost non-existent.
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2004, 07:20:17 PM »
Chortle,

You got it on the nose.

Ravs, reaction time and the inability of the average person to percieve the threat and react properly actually makes the distance and time increase. The 1.5 seconds is for a defender EXPECTING and knowing the attack is coming. For a defender who is not in that particular mindset it gets worse.

Been there and got the T-shirt thanks to my heavy coat and bullet resistant vest.
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Offline Chortle

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« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2004, 07:29:29 PM »
OK Maverick, I didn't want to jump in but it seemed pretty likely. Anyhow, sincerely the best of luck with that mate, I dunno how you do that day in day out.
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Offline Ripsnort

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Guns don't kill people, nah.
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2004, 08:04:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
I'm sure the percentage of crime,injuries deaths relating to guns in those states still far exceeds other industrilised countries. How does it compare to Japan for instance where gun ownership is almost non existent?

Saying that gun ownership reduces crime is a desperate argument.



...-Gixer


Lets stick to one country, one culture at a time, shall we?  Why don't we just compare it to something rediculous like New Zealand or Japan? ;)

Apples to apples, gun crime is down here because more  prudent citizens have them, thats a fact you can't argue, so might as well compare an apple to an orange since you can't win this argument. ;)
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Offline Fishu

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« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2004, 08:18:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
quote:Originally posted by Martlet
    117 Americans die each day from automobiles.
 

Actually I think its a damn good comparison and a good example of the silliness of gun laws.


Casualties by automobiles are mostly due to accidents.
Casualties by firearms are mostly due to intentional shooting.
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2004, 08:21:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Casualties by automobiles are mostly due to accidents.
Casualties by firearms are mostly due to intentional shooting.


Really?  Could you show me those stats?


And....so?  what's your point?
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Guns don't kill people, nah.
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2004, 08:26:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Casualties by automobiles are mostly due to accidents.
Casualties by firearms are mostly due to intentional shooting.


Still,
Less people die by being shot intentionally then die in cars accidentally

80 is a damn low number as far as Im concerned

Probably ranks pretty low on the daily causes of death scale.
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2004, 08:34:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Still,
Less people die by being shot intentionally then die in cars accidentally

80 is a damn low number as far as Im concerned

Probably ranks pretty low on the daily causes of death scale.


Tenth
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2004, 08:44:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Tenth


Like I said, pretty low

1.2%
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