Armchair Psychologist Needed …

[Dawggus]

I bet there have been enough experiments and studies of group dynamics to answer why people respond so differently to what I guess I’ll call the “weakling versus bully” phenomenon.  Lots of folks have talked on these boards about how the community and HTC responded when the Rooks were in the hole a few years back, compared to when the Rooks have larger numbers today, and I have wondered the same thing.  The three-Country setup we have made the two situations different in at least one major way.

When the Rooks were in the hole, and both the Knights and Bishops seemed to have parity, what I’ll call the “98-pound weakling” phenomenon occurred.  Like the guy in the old Atlas ads, the Rooks got picked on and had sand kicked in their face a lot .  HTC made some minor game tweaks, but didn’t take any authoritative measures to try to address the situation.  Some Knight and Bishop Squads felt sorry for the weakling and decided to help out on a temporary basis.  And the Rooks themselves decided to sign-up for Charles Atlas’ body-building program to address their situation.  In other words, the community policed itself and, over time, corrected the imbalance.

Now, currently, when the Rooks numbers swelled, and again the Knights and Bishops seemed to have parity, what I’ll call the “bully” phenomenon occurred.  The Knights and Bishops were outraged that the bully was pushing everyone around, especially on Sunday nights.  HTC took an authoritative stand to make some major game tweaks aimed at parity.  There was not a large hue and cry from the Knights and Bishops to get more organized to fight the bully.  And the Rooks themselves did little to try to correct the imbalance voluntarily.  In other words, the community did little to police itself, albeit this was over a relatively short time period, and looked to the “man” to fix the problem.

Now I’m sure you can and will poke a million holes in and correct my analogy.  I’m not saying either group is right or wrong, or either approach is correct or incorrect.  My real question is, are there psychological studies of group reactions over time to weaklings and bullies that would help explain the different response that we have seen in the Aces High community around these two situations?  It seems to me that society kind of laughs off the weaklings, feels sorry for them but by and large tells them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and take care of themselves.  On the other hand, society seems to react strongly to bullies, passes laws to protect us from them, and takes quick action to put them in their place.

Cya Up!

Dawg

[Arlo]

After several seconds of intensive search involving online medical journals this is all I could come up with:

[Zazen13]

The community was in the process of correcting itself when the ENY system was implimented. Alot of Rook squadrons and individuals began rotating especially on Sunday nights. The reason they did this was simply because there is very little to kill when Rooks have overwhelming numerical superiority. Given time a portion of those 'part-time' defectors would have made a permanent home elsewhere as happened to some extent when Rooks were in the basement. Since the ENY system was implimented in the middle of this process it essentially aborted it. Instead of making people want to help the underdogs it has actually galvanized country fidelity. No more do people feel badly about having numbers when they are forced to fly inferior planes, they feel having to fly inferior planes is enough of a challenge for themselves and an advantage for those who are outnumbered.

Most know I fly for Knights alot when they are outnumbered. Knights have perhaps the worst teamwork and co-ordination of any country. I have not noticed any improvement in this area in the year+ I have been freelancing in Knightland. Given enough time and frustration of being in the bucket Knights may very well have adapted more co-operative teamplay tactics, but since the ENY system is implimented there is no real incentive to do so. The ENY system is like a crutch, it is actually a serious detriment to those who are disadvantaged as it creates the illusion of parity on the surface without the substance of it underneath thereby  removing the impetus behind the development of successfull tactics that work when disadvantaged numerically.

No matter what Knights, Bishops or Rooks fly or what the numbers, Rooks are still going to be the most tightly co-ordinated, teamplay oriented players. They became this way via 'baptism by fire', while harsh, it was effective in building comraderie and co-ordination. The other two teams are not going to go thru the same process Rooks did as there is  now no 'fire' for the 'baptism' process.

Zazen

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Knights have perhaps the worst teamwork and co-ordination of any country

It's the beer Zazs

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Zazen13
...

No matter what Knights, Bishops or Rooks fly or what the numbers, Rooks are still the most tightly co-ordinated, teamplay oriented players. They became this way via 'baptism by fire', while harsh, it was effective in building comraderie and co-ordination. The other two teams are not going to go thru the same process Rooks did as there is no 'fire' for the 'baptism' process.

Exactly.

And the scary thought which may be crossing some minds is just how much more dangerous Rooks could become if ENY forces them to not only become proficient in other planes, but also increase their level of teamwork because of it.

What's that old saying about  the "briar patch?"

    -DoK

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Zazen13
The community was in the process of correcting itself when the ENY system was implimented. Alot of Rook squadrons and individuals began rotating especially on Sunday nights. The reason they did this was there is very little to kill when Rooks have overwhelming numerical superiority. Given time a portion of those 'part-time' defectors would have made a permanent home elsewhere as happened to some extent when Rooks were in the basement. Since the ENY system was implimented in the middle of this process it essentially aborted it. Instead of making people want to help the underdogs it has actually galvanized country fidelity. No more do people feel badly about having numbers when they are forced to fly inferior planes, they feel having to fly inferior planes is enough of a challenge for themselves and an advantage for those who are outnumbered.

Most know I fly for Knights alot when they are outnumbered. Knights have perhaps the worst teamwork and co-ordination of any country. I have not noticed any improvement in this area in the year+ I have been freelancing in Knightland. Given enough time and frustration of being in the bucket Knights may very well have adapted more co-operative teamplay tactics, but since the ENY system is implimented there is no real incentive to do so. The ENY system is like a crutch, it is actually a serious detriment to those who are disadvantaged as it creates the illusion of parity on the surface without the substance of it underneath thereby  removing the impetus behind the development of successfull tactics that work when disadvantaged numerically.

No matter what Knights, Bishops or Rooks fly or what the numbers, Rooks are still going to be the most tightly co-ordinated, teamplay oriented players. They became this way via 'baptism by fire', while harsh, it was effective in building comraderie and co-ordination. The other two teams are not going to go thru the same process Rooks did as there is  now no 'fire' for the 'baptism' process.

Zazen

Well hell. Easy enough theory to test, then. I say temporarily suspend the ENY disablement for a two week period and see how the waters fair. Will the overwhelming numbers disparity resume or will the community "police itself?" If it works out as you suspect .... keep it disabled. If it goes back to what it was ... bring it back.

See? Look. I'm on your side now.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Arlo
Well hell. Easy enough theory to test, then. I say temporarily suspend the ENY disablement for a two week period and see how the waters fair. Will the overwhelming numbers disparity resume or will the community "police itself?" If it works out as you suspect .... keep it disabled. If it goes back to what it was ... bring it back.

See? Look. I'm on your side now.

It takes time, Rooks were in the bucket well over 6 months with no reprieve. Human nature would even things out on its own if given time. Impatience and rash measures are actually operating in fundamental contradiction to human nature and are serving to thwart its natural tendency and gravitation toward a state of equilibrium and balance.

Zazen

[Arlo]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Exactly.

And the scary thought which may be crossing some minds is just how much more dangerous Rooks could become if ENY forces them to not only become proficient in other planes, but also increase their level of teamwork because of it.

What's that old saying about  the "briar patch?"

    -DoK

How in the world can it be a bad thing, then, eh? I flew Rook a bit recently and I considered dragging the squad there ("dragging" being an exaggeration. We don't hold to "fanatical chesspiece loyalty" ... they got used to logging on Knight outa habit). We could possibly even get us some F4U-1 recruits outa it.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Zazen13
It takes time, Rooks were in the bucket well over 6 months with no reprieve. Human nature would even things out on its own if given time. Impatience and rash measures are actually operating in fundamental contradiction to human nature and are serving to thwart its natural tendencies toward balance.

Zazen

So .. you're sayin' that it wouldn't work? Because ENY limitation does work, Zaz. Just sayin'.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Arlo
So .. you're sayin' that it wouldn't work? Because ENY limitation does work, Zaz. Just sayin'.

I don't understand what you are saying, can you re-phrase?

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Arlo
How in the world can it be a bad thing, then, eh? I flew Rook a bit recently and I considered dragging the squad there ("dragging" being an exaggeration. We don't hold to "fanatical chesspiece loyalty" ... they got used to logging on Knight outa habit). We could possibly even get us some F4U-1 recruits outa it.

The current ENY is bad because (a) it doesn't address the core gameplay issues, (b) the current system doesn't apply ENY evenly, (c) it penalizes people who aren't really contributing to the problem, (d) it's not fair to squads or squad leaders who need to move or change rides - both of which should be voluntary, not coerced.

The fact that Rooks appear to be coping, like they coped with the earlier long-term odds imbalance against them, doesn't mean that the "fix" is what's best for the game.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Zazen13
I don't understand what you are saying, can you re-phrase?

1: You asserted that the community was in the process of being able to handle number disparity by policing itself when HTC unfairly imposed the system of ENY restriction on it.

2: I said let's test this theory and ask HTC to temporarily suspend ENY restriction and see what happens over a two week (or longer) period and if the community can't (or won't) find a suitable method on it's own, HTC can turn it back on.

3: You suddenly lost confidence in your statment and tried to bargain for a time extension.

4: I asserted that the ENY restriction accomplished what it was designed to do from practically day one.

I still say let's test the waters. I'm all for it. I figured you would be too.

[Dawggus]

Originally posted by Arlo
After several seconds of intensive search involving online medical journals this is all I could come up with:

ROFLMAO ... THAT'S IT, I can't believe you found it!!!

Hmm, Charles is a lot uglier than I remember .

Cya Up!

Dawg

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Arlo
1: You asserted that the community was in the process of being able to handle number disparity by policing itself when HTC unfairly imposed the system of ENY restriction on it.

2: I said let's test this theory and ask HTC to temporarily suspend ENY restriction and see what happens over a two week (or longer) period and if the community can't (or won't) find a suitable method on it's own, HTC can turn it back on.

3: You suddenly lost confidence in your statment and tried to bargain for a time extension.

4: I asserted that the ENY restriction accomplished what it was designed to do from practically day one.

I still say let's test the waters. I'm all for it. I figured you would be too.

Ummm, I said the process of balancing was underway prior to the ENY system implimentation. I never said it would show tangible results in two weeks or any other time period. I am not a prognosticator, I have no idea how long it would take, all I can do is assure you it would happen inevitably as surely as the sun sets at night and rises in the morning, it cannot do otherwise, human nature is a constant, completely reliable and predictable.

I disagree that the ENY system is working, last night was a fine example. Practically noone left Rooks and very few if any Rooks logged off as a result of being 'penalized'. Rooks simply flew whatever was allowed and won the reset anyways. If anything, that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the ENY system is a complete and utter failure in its current incarnation.

Zazen

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Zazen13

I disagree that the ENY system is working, last night was a fine example. Practically noone left Rooks. Rooks simply flew whatever was allowed and won the reset anyways. If anything, that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the ENY system is a complete and utter failure in its current incarnation.

Zazen

Actually, I agree that last night was a fine example. A fine example of the Rooks getting together and having fun in spite of ENY restrictions. If players prefer that to switching sides, hey ... go for it. But no, it doesn't prove ENY restriction is a failure at all. That's just wishful thinking on the part of some.