Author Topic: The 1945 arena  (Read 1371 times)

Offline Guppy35

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The 1945 arena
« on: September 06, 2004, 11:20:30 PM »
From all the whining about this ENY stuff it seems clear that the real solution is the 1945 arena.

Nothing but LA7s, P51Ds for the 339th guys who seem to have the most ENY whines, 262s, Spit 14s, Tempests, TA152s, D9s etc

In this arena you'd perk the non uber rides.

If you want a Spit V, you've gotta get your perks in a Spit XIV

If you want a 109G2, you'd better get your 262 kills in first.

If you want a P40, you'd better get your kills in a 51D first.  No chance on a B model Mustang either unless you can do your stuff in a 51D

That and put the bases really far away so folks could climb really high so they can dive reallly fast.

Any turning under 300 MPH would also be perked.  Automatic blowing up if you try to turn slow.

Think of the fun!

Of course we'd have to put up with all the whines of the Spit V and P40 pilots.

So?  Think it will work?

Dan/Slack
Who hasn't figured out what all the fuss is really about yet.  I've always been a bit slow though
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Arlo

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2004, 11:26:14 PM »
Do that and they'll be asking a a 1946 one, Tiff.

But seriously .... sure ... I bet HT could add a couple of arenas (at some expense and effort) that would, in the long run, pay for themselves and then some.

And I'm not evene talking about the Spanish Civ...

Wait a second!

Offline Octavius

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2004, 01:22:47 AM »
lol!!!
octavius
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Offline bozon

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2004, 10:03:50 AM »
You got my vote Guppy :aok

Also, give them a special forum to whine on so this one stays clear.

Bozon
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Offline J_A_B

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2004, 10:42:07 AM »
Judging by the huge number of complaints I'm seeing, I think I'll continue to "sit out".  Ive logged on a few times just to check things and I sure didn't like what I saw.  I won't wait forever though.

The only people who don't seem to mind are those who don't seem to favor a particular ride, or one affected by the limiter.




J_A_B

Offline leitwolf

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2004, 12:04:50 PM »
the description sounds exactly like the MA ..
veni, vidi, vulchi.

Offline Widewing

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2004, 05:56:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B

The only people who don't seem to mind are those who don't seem to favor a particular ride, or one affected by the limiter.

J_A_B


This is true. I fly a little bit of everything. However, the P-51B is almost always available and I prefer it to the P-51D for fighter work.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2004, 06:33:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B
Judging by the huge number of complaints I'm seeing, I think I'll continue to "sit out".  Ive logged on a few times just to check things and I sure didn't like what I saw.  I won't wait forever though.

The only people who don't seem to mind are those who don't seem to favor a particular ride, or one affected by the limiter.




J_A_B


THIS is EXACTLY why I have felt from the very beginning that the ENY limit system was a HORRIBLE idea, because it PUNISHES people and discourages them from playing.

NEVER punish a paying customer by taking something from him. Offer a reward or incentive or something to another customer to make them happy. But NEVER punish a customer by taking something away from him that you allow another customer to continue to have and enjoy. Never FORCE a customer to do something he does not want to do, like make a choice he would not ordinarily have to make.

This does not mean you should allow anyone to "cheat" or "exploit" a feature to artificially affect the game, such as griefing.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Karnak

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2004, 06:52:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Offer a reward or incentive or something to another customer to make them happy.

They did this.  People ignored it and the problem got worse.

What is the solution?
Petals floating by,
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Offline Arlo

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2004, 06:59:29 PM »
Perk points punishes new customers for being new. It might discourage them from becoming old customers.

C'mon Hilts! We've known each other for virtual eons. The whole persecution thing I'm seeing here because people are just being too bull-headed stubborn to work within the new addition to the system (a new addition that was designed to get some players to stop being so set in their bull-headed rationalization that they have "valid" excuses not to switch and even things up in the resetopia arena) is just plain silly.

Sorry ... but that's how it all comes across. Silly, stubborn, selfish and lazy.

I don't buy the excuses I'm hearing. But then again, if that's what the world's turned into ... I guess it'll come down to the squeeky wheel factor. And hell, it ain't up to me, anyhow.

But man .... I swear .... it all sounds like one big fat estrogen-filled donut being rolled down titty-baby hill.

:rolleyes: ;)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2004, 07:54:29 PM »
The perk system does not punish new people for being new, that's a straw man and you know it as well as I. They can EARN perk points, no one can EARN their way around the ENY system. New players don't have perks taken away, they never had them to begin with. But they ARE given the opportunity to EARN them.



The first problem we have here is the multitude of likely false assumptions about the reasons why Rooks don't want to switch.

First we have the assumption that Rooks are Rooks because they get more and easier resets and more perk points. So, what IS the average reset rate among counties, and IS there a great disparity? Also, you get 75 lousy perks for a reset, and if you get a reset with hordes, you earn very few perk points along the way.

Second, we have the assumption that Rooks are Rooks because hordes make kills easy. Really? If the odds are 2:1 or greater in favor of Rooks, then most of the Rooks aren't getting most of the kills. Just like the real war, a relativelysmall percentage get a relatively large percentage of the kills.

Third, we have the assumption that as a rule, Rooks generally suck, and are no talent gang bangers. So the only way they get ANY kills is by vastly superior odds. But there are really good pilots on all three sides, and once again, refer to assumption 2 above, and note that a relatively small percentage of of players get a relatively large percentage of the kills.

These three assupmtions cover the general multitude of assumptions about the Rooks and their supposed massive overwhelming numerical superiority.

These three assumptions may be and probably are true in some cases for some people who are Rooks. Such people are transients, and will wander about seeking such things from side to side, and from game to game. They are NOT part of the CORE player group nor are they part of the CORE customer base.

Now, lets look at why those assumptions make Rooks reluctant to go anywhere else.

Just read the assumptions. If you were a Rook, would you want to fly with people who assumed this about you, and stated it loudly, plainly, and constantly?

This is not just a set of assumptions that are heard and felt here on the BBS, but also in the game as well.

All over this board, and I can very easily quote posts, name posters, and link to threads, but I won't, you can read _____:"3 or 4 of my ____ (insert name of country, Bishops or Knights) can easily thrash any 10 or 12 Rooks at any time, they all suck". Heard constantly in the MA as well.

No matter how good the guy (and his buddies) is (are), he goes to the top of two lists for me:
1. People I ignore completely.
2. People I REFUSE to fly with.

Now, perhaps the above situation leads Rooks to make a possibly false assumption about the Knights and Bishops.

So, there is a possibility, and indeed an actual likelyhood of false assumptions on all sides.

Interestingly enough, since we know there was a time when Knights AND Bishops easily outnumbered and overpowered Rooks on a VERY regular basis, there has been a time of transition. There is an assumption here that is also likely false. That assumption is that the MAJOR factor behind the ascension of the Rooks is the fact that squads from Knights and Bishops switched to Rooks.

However, if that were actually true, then there would be no reason why they would not switch back and that would be enough to even the odds considerably. This has NOT happened. WHY? Is the assumption that those squads now have it easy, and do not want to switch back? That does not work, because they had it easy when the Bishops and Knights had numerical superiority, but they switched to Rooks anyway. So, we have another false assumption, OR, we have a serious decline in the so called "quality of the players". Which is it?


The next problem is why this has happened and what can or should be done about it.

This is a difficult problem, and cannot be resolved by any mechanism like the ENY limiter alone. It is a problem with PEOPLE. It is a problem with the COMMUNITY.

That means the first thing that must be done is to throw out ALL of the assumptions about the people and the community which cannot be proven true, and those which can be proven false.

Now, as a mechanism to drive players to switch sides, I don't see where the ENY limit system has been any sort of success. It has somewhat levelled the numbers in SOME cases.

The SOLUTION?

Well, there is the MAIN problem, we have people looking to HTC (or anywhere else but within their own ranks) to provide a solution, rather than people within the community working to create their own solution. The problem is that if the Knights and Bishops are short of players actively playing, or even actually subscribed, ONLY the Knights and Bishops can actually provide effective permanent solutions to that problem.  The deep rift that apparently exists between the Rooks and the other two countries prevents any real hope of any large side switching. The only things that can be done is recruiting new players agressively, and encouraging inactive players to become active. That has to be done from within the Knights and Bishops. "We're from HTC and we're here to help" ain't gonna create a long term effective solution. Change comes from within.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Guppy35

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2004, 07:58:55 PM »
That was kinda my point Arlo.  Fly something else, there are lots of planes.

If you listen to all the whining, then you might as well eliminate the majority of the aircraft and create secret weapons of the Luftwaffe.

Give everyone the latest and greatest and forget the rest.

It's been discussed before, but it seems to me that when the game focused on "winning the war", any notion of air combat or strategic bombing, went out the window.

Now its the hamster wheel to kill bases fast, capture them and the 'glory' comes from winning the reset.  

Who cares!  The war starts right back up.

Why not eliminate the reset.  Make certain bases undestroyable/capturable.

Create strat targets for the bomber point mongers.  You want to limit fuel?  Launch a raid to the oil refinaries deep in enemy territory.

You want to limit certain planes.  Go deep to hit the aircraft factories.  

The history minded " have to fly a 51D" guys can escort those bombers on those long range missions and fight off the 262s, D9s and Ta152s and prove what great pony drivers they are.

I wonder how long the LA7 guys would stay in them if the airwar moved upwards on those long range runs

Give the Mossie fanatics a reason to run raids deep into bad guy land.  Maybe the AR234 guys do the same.

You'd still have bases capturable so the tank drivers and attack aircraft folks can ebb and flow back and forth, but it just might help do away with the Mob vs a few that seems to appear on the map all the time and maybe even out the fights and give guys a reason to learn better ACM

The point/perk mongers will always find a way to earn them if that is all that drives them, but until the "win the reset' bit goes away, you can bet the whining will continue.

Dan/Slack
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2004, 08:08:31 PM »
Dan, I disagree. I really don't think the "win the war/reset" thing is what is wrong. It may well be PART of the problem, but it isn't the whole problem.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Arlo

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2004, 08:54:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The perk system does not punish new people for being new, that's a straw man and you know it as well as I. They can EARN perk points, no one can EARN their way around the ENY system. New players don't have perks taken away, they never had them to begin with. But they ARE given the opportunity to EARN them.
 


IF that was a "straw man argument" then the statement above hardly counters it. It's not like the rationalization "there's nothing I can do but fly a rickity old early war plane or log off" is really a true statement.

The game didn't start out with perked planes. It was added to address a perceived problem. The problem being that players in the MA never flew anything but the best of the late war planes. Kind of understandable, with no restrictions in place. Why take a knife to a gunfight? Of course, now players do a little perk earning in perk magnet planes and if they're good (or very careful) they can still do it. But it takes effort, some skill (or some timidity) and time.

You can instantly "earn" ENY restricted planes back and you know that. It's easier than earning perks, aamof. It's just not automatic. But again, players gotta choose what they want most. Do they want to fly unrestricted or do they want to fly with a numerical advantage? Players hands aren't tied. They just can't have their cake and eat it to when it comes to numerical superiority in the resetopia/perk arena now.

And i'm not making the assumptions .. or the excuses. Fanatically stubborn "won't change if it kills me" players are. And that's fine. If they don't want to change sides ... don't. The ENY restriction is actually two-sided anyhow.

Players that wish to believe that if they refuse to switch they'll prove the system doesn't work are completely ignoring the fact that it still accomplishes some parity by at least reducing the horde to having to fly early model planes. YES, the "war" can still be "won" doing that. And why shouldn't it? You and I know that a horde of vulching Spit 1s isn't all that much different than a horde or Tempests other than it takes more ammo and if they happen to auger while vulching it'll take a little longer to get back to the vulchfest. So if any of the "sovereign chesspiece nations" have numerical superiority and decide to stay cohesive and take advantage of that, they still can .... but they pay the piper a little now for such indiscretion.

The whole "I want my cake and eat it too because I paid for it" attitude is a bit too "Little Lord Fauntleroyish" for my tastes.

BUT ... I'll say this ... I sure hope HT either raises the ENY of the dirty ape or adds an earlier one for your sake because I know how directly this affects your personal likes. And I'm sincerely sorry for your predicament in that regard.

I'll even go so far as to not be broken up over HT getting rid of the ENY restriction.

But I just don't understand the sack cloth and ashes and threats to quit over something that's not as much a disaster as some would make it out to be.

Offline Hornet

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The 1945 arena
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2004, 09:00:32 PM »
lol Tiff.

The only thing bigger than the Rook odds currently is their persecution complex.
Hornet