Author Topic: Terrorists and Assault Weapons  (Read 2533 times)

Offline Toad

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Terrorists and Assault Weapons
« Reply #90 on: September 09, 2004, 12:31:25 PM »
Well, let's look at your example.

Young perp is stealing car.

Olaf hauls out his FN and starts whacking away at the perp. Scholz sees this and hauls out his HK and strats tripping the trigger on Olaf to "protect the life of another citizen", the perp.

Hans down the block can see Olaf shooting but can't see the perp; he doesn't know if Olaf is shooting a red deer or a car thief. Hans also sees Scholz whacking away at Olaf. Hans pulls out the Husqvarna and lays a few at Scholz to "protect the life of another citizen", Olaf.

Meanwhile, Bjorn sees Hans ...........

So, technically the only illegal vigilantism here is Olaf. Hans and Bjorn are blameless.  Lovely system you have there.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline tce2506

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« Reply #91 on: September 09, 2004, 01:01:13 PM »
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Let me be clear. I believe in very few restrictions and the AWB isn't one of them.


Care to elaborate on which restictions you are for? Just curious. Anything more restrictive than felons being denied the right?

Offline tce2506

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« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2004, 01:02:06 PM »
Or metally disabled, had to get that one in too.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2004, 01:12:26 PM »
tce2506
 Like I said above I am for things like background checks,  and wait periods, or any control to make sure nutt jobs do not get guns.

I am agaist anything, that would keep normal law abiding citizens from getting any gun they want including machine guns in a reasonable time.

You better check you state laws cowboy before you go capping people over you car. You very well could end up in jail.

I do not support any of the current crop of gun laws Cali has tried, like making gun makers do exspensive tests to sell their guns in the state or force gun makers to install internal locks or the guns can't be sold(only for new designs).

Taking un un armed criminals life over your car will do more harm then background checks will.

Defending your right to bare arms now is more then about dogedly stating "you cant restrict it at all, no checks etc" it just makes you look like a gun not to the "normal" middle of the road people.  

Gun owners need to start making sure they do not come off as idiots and give the other side more ammo to ultimatly ban guns.

Saying you would kill someone, another human being over a car when you life was not threatend makes you sound like an animal, or person who should not be trusted with a firearm.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2004, 01:30:05 PM »
It's not vigilantism if you are preventing a crime against yourself.

Gscholtz, the more and more you post, the dumber it seems you get.  I don't know if I just thought you were smart to begin with, but now...
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Offline tce2506

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« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2004, 01:37:35 PM »
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You better check you state laws cowboy.........


Cowboy....... I'll take that as a compliment.

As far as the rest of your Kalifornia, liberal, criminals have rights too rhetoric, It's been entertaining and educational chatting with you, but I will not waste any more of your (or my) time. I will say that with your strong will and tenacity  I am glad you are on the Pro-Gun side. and good luck.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2004, 01:40:27 PM by tce2506 »

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2004, 02:13:15 PM »
You don't get it.  It's not vigilantism if you are protecting yourself!

Vigilantes go out looking for crime to stop, much like you yourself said you would.
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Offline Rino

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« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2004, 02:27:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
That law, as has been pointed out, was nothing more than another "feel good" move with no affect on anything at all, let alone crime.

But Thank Cod we got bayonet lugs out of the hands of the lawful public.

Oh wait, we didn't do that. We just prohibited more bayonet lugs frmo getting into the hands of the lawful public. Because most people that wanted them already had them.


What a joke.


     Bayonet lugs are nothing, look at the pure chaos caused by...
CARRYING HANDLES!  My god, the horror! :)

     I really need to get out of the People's Republik of NJ
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2004, 03:29:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Rino
Bayonet lugs are nothing, look at the pure chaos caused by...
CARRYING HANDLES!  My god, the horror! :)

     I really need to get out of the People's Republik of NJ


I don't know, you might poke your eye out with that carry handle :)

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Offline flakbait

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« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2004, 04:01:32 PM »
Schultz, read Mav's post about facilitation and my original post again. This time try not to troll for sound-bytes or take a specific sentence so far out of context.

Quote

Originally posted by flakbait
Do I agree with the 10-round limit on pistols? Yes and no. Yes, because it gives a perp less ammo to fire at you or an officer. No, because I'd like 15 rounds of Silvertip .40 S&W to fire at the guy trying to steal my jeep. If given a choice, I'd have to say no. 10 shots is plenty for pistols.


This is a normal form of presenting a "both sides of the coin" example. On the one hand, you have option A. On the other, you have option B. If given the choice, I'd take A over B. Instead, you whipped up a furor by taking a single line from that quote so far out of context it isn't funny. Hindsight being what it is, I admit I could've chosen a better method of presenting the other side of the argument. Then again, you could've asked me if I meant that in a literal sense. You didn't, you chose to run all over the place with one sentence that didn't mean what you thought it meant. Politicians do this on a very regular basis, I just never had you pegged as one. As for valuing a thief's life less than a nickel, that's an easy one. The thief is more interested in his 15 minutes of kicks than anything else. Unlike a Marine grunt, a doctor, a cop, a paramedic, an Air Force pilot, the local flight instructor, or a family man/woman, the thief is doing it all for himself. Unlike all those folks, a thief is not dedicating his time and effort in making a positive difference in another's life. He's dedicated to doing what he wants when he wants, regardless of what impact that has on another person's life or how much damage it causes. I can't hold a person like that in anything but a negative light.

And yes, in the United States, facilitation is a crime. If Toad spots someone stealing his car and threatens that criminal with a gun, he is stopping a crime in progress. If you shoot Toad, you're effectively defending the criminal with lethal force. So in addition to being charged with excessive use of lethal force, reckless discharge of a firearm, and attempted murder, you'd also be charged with facilitation of grand theft auto. Because you didn't stop the thief, you stopped the man trying to stop the thief. In the law's eyes, you'd be guilty of aiding the thief even if that wasn't your intention. I'd trust Mav on this point, as he was in law enforcement for an awful long time.


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Offline demaw1

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« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2004, 07:58:33 PM »
RPM...why...

  Why would you want me to protect myself,family or anyone else ,with a bolt action winchester 30-06 scoped rifle against someone /someones with ak 47s.....why does someone always want us to be sucking the hind tit?

Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2004, 08:19:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
I hope the dumbacrats concoct another law like this a year down the line.  Because this one made me a boat load of money when I sold all my "Pre-ban" stuff for top dollar (100% over cost), now all I have to do is re buy the same stuff after the ban goes away in 5 days for pennies on the dollar...

Thanks dumbacrats.  You made me money for once as opposed to taking it away!

:aok


Have you also noted how the soon to be banned weapons sales skyrocket right before a ban? The Democrats and Republicans voting for the "assault Weapons" ban really have no clue.
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Offline flyingaround

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« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2004, 02:47:40 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
If I see a person trying to kill someone or inflict grievous bodily harm for whatever reason but self-defence or defence of another person, I will try and stop that person with any means necessary, including lethal force. This is not a crime (at least in my country), in fact it is a civil duty.

So if I see you trying to fire your firearm at a person stealing your car, barring if this thief is a threat to your life, I will try and stop you with any means necessary. Including killing you.


Sooo...following this logic, I see you about to shoot the guy about to shoot the car thief, so it's my CIVIL duty to shoot you??

hmmm..... how incredibly stupid is that?
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Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2004, 05:00:08 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Just shooting someone because they're holding or firing a gun isn't enough. The courts will later decide if you were justified in your actions. If I see a man about to kill an unarmed and obviously non-threatening man, I will try and stop it. If I am armed I might even kill the assailant to save the other man. If I killed a man just because he held a gun, or if I didn't see what he was shooting at, I would most likely be charged with second-degree murder.


If you were armed and at 101 California St., you'd be considered a hero if you took out that crazy killer right as he tried to start his massacre.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #104 on: September 10, 2004, 08:05:33 AM »
what does any of this have to do with the so called "assault weapons"?

myabe I should show a picture of all my firearms and you guys can decide which ones I should and shouldn't own?  Be glad to send the pics to someone.
lazs