wanna be wanna be like drex or suck like leviathn

[Citabria]

what control setup do you use?

I need a reference of people who are very good snapshot accuracy experts on their favorite hardware to fly with.


am thinking of getting the saitek x45 and ch usb pedals.

[moot]

saiteks are the flakiest tools I've used.  I wouldn't recommend them unless you're ready to be repairing the trigger and hats and pots relatively often.  Very cheap Made in Thirdworld plastic toy feel.
The X45 I found too heavy handed at the deadzone threshold to really pinpoint the plane's nose in any and every condition.  It should be good if you fix that though.
There's something very oversquare about it that always got in the way instead of transmitting my commands quickly and naturaly.

Maybe the X52 will be an improvement... You do usually get full warranties with them though.

I also had a CH fighterstick and owing to its center precision, it was pretty easy to aim accurately with, but it otoh has nearly no spring resistance.  The fit and finish is good and much better than the X45, but it's still plastic and it felt like it certainly would fail sooner or later when the parts would wear out, though it didn't happen in the few months I had it.  
In this regard I'd recommend test-using a Cougar.

I don't know about pedals, but the CH are the only ones I've seen good feedback for.

[Purzel]

Hi Cit.

I have the setup you sugggest. In your other post you mentioned that you want very good behaviour concerning "center-force" and "spikyness".

About the spikes, the X45 is ok I guess.

But the spring in there is only good the first few hours of use. Afterwards there will be some resistance you have to get over. There are some suggestions on how to ease thta, I didnt try any up to now. But when you are looking for something like the FFB2 (tried that once too) the X45 is not going to be as good.

Maybe you can try a used X45 somewhere so you know what youre about to get.

CH Pedals are good, esp if you have used the twist-handle until now. Needs some getting used to, but it will become the better choice.

Maybe this helps.

[DoctorYO]

Ive done the MS twisty... and then upgraded to ch pedals with saitek x45..

it was a steep learning curve going from twisty to pedals so prepare for frustration..

IMO its worth it..  the control you have with pedals over twisty is superior in coordinated turns hammerheads etc....  Toe brakes for ground handling are a plus...

I use the rudder stick on the saitek throttle for flaps.. and have never turned back...

be advised a new saitek has a tough spring so getting used to the increased strength of the stick took some time also..

Chapsticking the base does help though.. (or petrolium jelly) (huh beavis huh huh        )

the major drawback is the spring/stick tension is more severe than any ms stick....

laser fly by wire from the MS stick seems superior to the White Knuckle Saitek seat of your pants feel..

Overall immersion is better with saitek though..


2 cents..


DoctorYo

[SunKing]

How about some screenshots of peoples pitch & roll slider screens. I think those have alot to do with snapshots, ie: LW planes.

CH Products all the way. The best hardware for serious flight jockeys.

[gofaster]

CH is the top o' the line (as I've mentioned before).  Worth the money if you're in the hobby for awhile; not just AH but any flight sim.  I also use the CH USB pedals for racing sims.

But it doesn't matter what gear you use if all you do is either (a) fly really fast in 262s or (b) chop throttle turn fight.  A pencil glued to a couple of potentiometers will accomplish the same thing.

[Pongo]

Ive had a full saitek set, Full TM cougar set, A logitech twisty a Saitek twisty and now a full CH Set. Hell I even had one of the original TM sets back in 93? or so.

If you figure it out let me know. I will advise you to stay away from the cougar though. Modded up its a thing of beauty. but you have to be prepared to be in maintenance mode much of the time.

[Seeker]

I've had non FF MS twisty; Cougar and I'm currently using a X45.

The Cougar is crap. Pure Emporer's new clothes sydrome.

The X45 is OK. The software isn't half so good as the Cougar's; but it's less than a third of the price; and is more reliable. It uses a rocker switch on the throttle as a rudder control; which is a great idea; but poorly executed. I've mapped rudder to one of the thumbwheels as I did on the cougar; which is very nice.

Nicest action I've tried was a cordless logitech; but many posters cast doubt on logitech reliability; and it didn't have that many buttons.

Then again; I reckon that very soon Track-IR will be de rigeur for simming; which wil free up the hat switch for other uses; so suddenly less"button endowed" sticks become more attractive.

[Soulyss]

On Saitek... I had a X36 from Saitek (refurb) and I used it for 3+ years before it started going out on me a couple months back.  Others I've heard have had them die on them after a few months.  Nice controllers, but something is severly lacking in the Saitek quality control department.  

CH Products... Just startd using a full CH setup (Fighterstick, throttle, pedals) when my X36 started to go, been going for a month or two now.  My biggest concerns were the Fighterstick doesn't have a lot of resistence to it.  Makes it a little easier to over control, but I think I was able to make the adjustment.  The Fighterstick is also HUGE.  Again I was worred that I could reach the top 8 way hat with my thumb for views, it was a little uncomfortable at first but again I got used to it and I can fly my normal amount (1-2 hours a night) without any discomfort.  Actually my  biggest gripe about CH over the X36 is the throttle, I much prefered the rocking motion on the Saitek throttle to the sliding motion on the CH.  I find that sometimes I accidently knock the throttle back in a dogfight and suddenly I'm not in WEP anymore.  All in all though I like the CH stuff.  If I could make my own, I would scale the stick down a little bit and add resistence, or a scalable resistence screw or somthing to it.  But all in all a nice setup.

[Stang]

Flame Bait?  

[Drex]

I use the stiffer sticks, since starting with a PFCS in 96'.  It had a very stiff feel that kept me on my lines better.  Upgraded to the F22pro Hotas, and now to the Cougar.  
Just what I'm used to but not the most important control for snapshots.

Rudder pedals are the most important for that regard, at least for me.
My rudder pedals are the CH pedals not the Pros.  Movement that is controlled by a tapping motion will grant you more control then a sliding motion(when speaking of gunnery)
I don't lay my entire foot in  the pedal just the balls of my feet, and my heels on the outside of the footbase. My toes now rest on the pedal and can help control the pressure of the rudder movement.  This enables me to have a smooth controlled input especially in the first half of the movement band.  Which is the range where most of your gunnery corrections will be in.   Much more control then someone who is sliding their feet.  Its not a realistic setup, and not even sure they make them anymore.  But for snapshots I think its the best.  

In AH:
Pitch: all 100s
Roll:  all 100s
Yaw: all 100s


Drex

[RTSigma]

I bought a Saitek X45 refurbed and it gave me some stiffness problems and when I called customer support they said they'd take it back and send me a replacement.

I think they have a great customer support system, which is better than a top of the line joystick that is expensive.

[llama]

I agree with Drex about the pedals; though sliding may be more realistic, I think that most of us automobile drivers out there already have a set of feet for which the "pivoting pedal" feels much more natural, and therefore precise.

As for the stick, of the new hardware, only the Cougar strikes me as not being mickey-mouse, but I don't feel like maintaining and modding like it seems like it must.

Beleive it or not, I still use 9-year old Thrustmaster gear (FLCS, WCS Mk II), with replacement parts bought on eBay from time to time, or from my priceless cache of "new old" TM parts (like pots, hats, boots, etc.)

I still recommend the ebay path for old flight gear as opposed to any of the new stuff...

-Llama

[SOB]

ThrustMaster F-22 and F-16 TQS moded with the hats switches and the switch caps from the Cougar, and upgraded with the Stickworks digital chips.  But I still suck.

[Roscoroo(work)]

Im mostly using my 1st wingman ... i welded a post to a washer and installed it after the centering post broke . for some reason it has the best pots out of all my wingmans ,I have 3 of them 2 are spiky junk though .

and i use my old thrustmaster f-16 at work w/ peddles but it really needs an 8 way hat and 2 more buttons.

Isnt CH supposed to come out with a twisty stick ??? or did they bail on that idea ?