Author Topic: Aces Horde  (Read 3856 times)

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #105 on: September 18, 2004, 09:55:36 AM »
Have you ever seen Silat in his Pink dress TC? With this High heels he is to die for. :o
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Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #106 on: September 18, 2004, 10:15:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Have you ever seen Silat in his Pink dress TC? With this High heels he is to die for. :o


well, standard uniform issue for all Damned is pink tutu s  Morph  ;)  ( and yes Silat is Damned )

does not make us females though :D ( inside joke sort of in our squad )
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #107 on: September 18, 2004, 10:26:41 AM »
Doh!!!

Thats right its a tutu.

:D
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Offline Soda

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« Reply #108 on: September 18, 2004, 11:51:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
I consider the ToD as something more of an "reenactment" than a true-blue game. It is essentially role-playing, and the neither the control of the war, nor the outcome of the war, is in our hands.


I agree.

I think a balance between structure and dynamic play is important in the MA though.  You can't just "place" people onto front and say "fight here", that takes most of the dynamic aspect away.  It also serves to hurt the "community" aspect of flying with friends (if you are on different fronts and have to wait to transfer)... I think that aspect of community is actually what is keeping a lot of veteran players in the game right now, not the gameplay/modeling.

Just my opinion though, I don't mind the horde, it means they've concentrated all their forces in one place, but it would be nice to be able to beat it for once.

-Soda

Offline DoKGonZo

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« Reply #109 on: September 18, 2004, 12:35:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
...

 The behavior of the horde is almost animalistic in nature. One or two people find a good opportunity to "feed"(easy kills). And then, one by one, seeing that there is "food" there, other people flock and group to that place.

...


Agreed.

I see where you're going with your idea, but any time the system "puts" people someplace, it'll be a problem. That messes up things for squads, and players lose a lot of perceived control of their gaming experience.

However ...

What if the system acted like 3 commanding generals, each with two fronts. The generals know you don't need more than 25% numberical superiority on a front to dominate it (all other things being equal), and that being 25% down on a front means you're likely to get rolled up.

In response to this anaylsis, the "general" allocates more low-ENY fighters, higher lift capacity at fields, and so on to a threatened front. This gets taken away from a stronger front - so the Horde would need to regulate itself ... the people fighting the defensive battle would scream at the Horde to move some people over already to help out. And the folks piling on to the Horde would find that they only had 2nd line planes and sometimes had to wait in line for those maybe.

For the asymetrical cases (being ganged up on or having excessive numbers) ... when you're getting ganged then the sides ganging you will be ENY'd as they have all their stuff facing only one front. Simple. If you have lots of numbers, then this system prevents you from piling it all against one country. And if you accelerate perk discounts, the peopel defending against a country with lots of players will have more technical superiority.

This way the population will be encouraged to regulate its own behavior. It won't fix the simultaneous squad night effect where one side has 50% more than any other one country, but I doubt much of anything will.

     -DoK

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #110 on: September 18, 2004, 01:17:03 PM »
All valid criticism!

 The point I was trying to make, is but an example of what type of ideas might be needed in the MA.

 Clearly, people have gripes of it being a chaotic FFA arena. On the other hand, at the same time, they don't like it if there's too much "military-style" restriction.

 Clearly, its a subject for futher thought.

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2004, 02:58:16 PM »
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To reduce the horde problem the system can try to adopt a "fighter squadron" or "air force" concept. Each log in, we choose for ourselves on which of the two "fronts" to join and fight. If the pilot numbers for the two fronts becomes too lopsided, the system will try to distribute and assign players into the opposite front. This will stop people from clogging into a single front to form a gang-banging horde.



I think that TOD will go a long way to addressing this too IMO.


IMO...

Do away with the Chess piece countries and go with the combatant countries of WWII.  

Set the planes up on a semi-historical timeline that they become available.  This is modified by the number of players in each country.

The more players the slower planes are introduced or even removed.

The less players the faster the late war planes are introduced.

Have AI ground forces launch out to do base capture.  Similar to Fighter Ace's Territorial Combat.  This would give fighter bombers more of a role and give the tank drivers a bigger role as well.  Towns/Cities should only be able to be flattenend by Buffs dumping a certain amount of ordinance on them.  

Crumpp

Offline DoKGonZo

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« Reply #112 on: September 18, 2004, 03:21:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
I think that TOD will go a long way to addressing this too IMO.


IMO...

Do away with the Chess piece countries and go with the combatant countries of WWII.  

Set the planes up on a semi-historical timeline that they become available.  This is modified by the number of players in each country.

The more players the slower planes are introduced or even removed.

The less players the faster the late war planes are introduced.

Have AI ground forces launch out to do base capture.  Similar to Fighter Ace's Territorial Combat.  This would give fighter bombers more of a role and give the tank drivers a bigger role as well.  Towns/Cities should only be able to be flattenend by Buffs dumping a certain amount of ordinance on them.  

Crumpp


Axis v. Allies will be a tough sell. Not just for political reasons, but because not all countries are well represented throughout the timeline - like, there's nothing pre-1943 for Russia. Most of the IJA stuff is either pre-41 or post-43. Rolling plane set would work, but not with historic country alignments.

Agreed on cities being immune to cannons and anything less than 500 pounders.

Offline anton

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« Reply #113 on: September 18, 2004, 04:20:38 PM »
Silat claimed to be female on 200 real recently. I had also heard Silat was female about 3yrs or so ago, then was told by others Silat was male. So I took the word of the horses mouth, but then again, it was in text & not on vox.........


On-Topic =   I'd like to see the Hordes busted by the community & not by HTC. Many many suggestions posted in this thread can & will work. It is up to those of us who care to make a difference. Lets be on alert for these hordes, Seek them out, smack them outta the sky & force ACM upon them. I have a sneaking suspision they wont like that a bit:D .

Anton

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« Reply #114 on: September 18, 2004, 04:38:34 PM »
I converted the original whine post to Swedish chef:

I em ebsulootely deesgoosted veet zee mejureety ooff EH pleyers. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Ell tuu oofftee I lug intu zee MA & feeoo zee mep luukeeng fur a bettle-a tu ingege-a in. Bork bork bork! Elmust elveys, ell I cun feend ere-a hurdes. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Ieezeer my cuoontry ( I sveetch elut su it mekes nu deeffff vheech oone-a) is beeeng hurded, oor dueeng zee hurdeeng, must oofftee BOTH. Yuoo hurde-a here-a, ve-a hurde-a zeere-a, & zeey hurde-a oofer zeere-a... Its leeke-a a beeg bese-a tredeeng mery-gu-ruoond. Bork bork bork! It seems gune-a ere-a zee deys vhee peuple-a pleyed zee geme-a fur Eur Cumbet, Noo it seems peuple-a pley fur pueents, oor stets, oor zee juy ooff vetcheeng booeeldings pup, tu see-a hoo fest zeem & 20 veengmee cun keell 3 loo deffenders. Um gesh dee bork, bork! I ves gled tu see-a EH feend a coore-a fur zee noombers prublem, boot it seems thet zeey oonly chunged zee curcoomstunces, & nut zee pleyer menteleety vheech ves epperently zee ectool coose-a fur zee geme-a imbelunce-a. I dunt knoo vhet zee coore-a is, boot I cun sey thet zee gemepley prublem is fer frum oofer, IMO. Soommer is cumeeng tu un ind, I soore-a hupe-a zee pleyers breeng zee gemepley up a nutch beffure-a veenter sets in und ve-a ell spend elut mure-a teeme-a flyeeng. A_Cloon :D

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #115 on: September 18, 2004, 04:38:54 PM »
Quote
Axis v. Allies will be a tough sell. Not just for political reasons, but because not all countries are well represented throughout the timeline - like, there's nothing pre-1943 for Russia. Most of the IJA stuff is either pre-41 or post-43. Rolling plane set would work, but not with historic country alignments.


There are definitely holes in the plane sets that would have to be filled.  Your absolutely right on the plane sets.

I think the "political reasons" is not much a factor.  Surely you don't think just because someone fly's a 109 they are Fascist and Anti-Semitic?  Or a La7 pilot can't wait to join the "party" and turn his neighbors over to the NKVD or send millions to their death in a purge?

Fighter Ace, a very cartoony game with a ridicules flight model, does just fine offering only country specific sides.  

Warbirds with it's even worse flight model, 2D graphics, and plethora of bugs has hung on offering just a Axis vs. Allies main arena for a long time.

In fact, the only reason WB's has been able to survive is it's loyal following in the AvA Main Arena.

Historic country alignments make sense both with the market and the game.

Now there would be some whining as folks could no longer log on and fly their favorite late war Uber fighter all the time.  

I think though that as folks learned that every time period had it's "uber fighter", encountered a greater variety of planes to fly, and fight a wider variety of enemies...The benefits would far outweigh the detractions.

Very few "pilots" in AH outside of the CT or scenario players, know exactly how good a fight you find in a 109E vs. a Hurricane Mk I!  Some of the best fights in the game are the early/mid war match ups you rarely see in the MA.

Crumpp

Offline nopoop

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« Reply #116 on: September 18, 2004, 05:39:16 PM »
Don't bother with an axis allied setup. Save the pain, just pull the plug.

Axis allies is actually a funeral march for the death of a flightsim.

WB has axis allied and they are hangin by fingernails because of it.

Not 2 cents, a fact.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #117 on: September 18, 2004, 06:17:35 PM »
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Don't bother with an axis allied setup. Save the pain, just pull the plug.


FA has had one from the begining so hasn't Warbirds.

Warbirds (aka MUSHbirds) is failing due to its numerous bugs and silly FM.

FA is pretty successful but appeals to the "Quake" gamers.  It has limited appeal to the simulation fans.  And being fairly smart folks, have chosen not even to compete with HTC for the simulation market.  Ask them and they will tell you flat out "We don't care if it is realistic, this is not a simulation it is a game..."


HTC is a good position to grab up the Warbirds market when it implodes.

Many of the "horde" folks would probably enjoy Fighter Ace much more so than AH.  Especially if they complain "it takes longer to shoot" someone down, now.  Facts are in air to air combat, seeing your opponent is half the battle.  If you spot him you can counter him.  

Crumpp

Offline ASTAC

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« Reply #118 on: September 18, 2004, 06:57:30 PM »
don't like hordes? Come to the CT
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Offline Zanth

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« Reply #119 on: September 18, 2004, 08:24:28 PM »
my chief dislikes of warbirds was the axis v. allied arena and the rotating plane set