Author Topic: Two reasons AH2 doesn't work  (Read 2650 times)

Offline simshell

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2004, 04:04:36 AM »
i think climb rate of aircraft play a major role in bomber use

a Lanc takes me like 20 mins to get to 10k

thats a long wait for 1 flight that may not survive at all and then screw up the bombing

i dont think people that fly the fighters that can get to 10k anyware from 5 mins to 2 mins in them can wait 10 to 20 mins then have to use a bombsight they not very sure how to use then to only screw it all up after using up 30 mins to get to target


now doing a NOE lanc run takes no climbing whatsoever and be at the enemy base in 5 to 10 mins and then level it without having to use the bombsight at all

il let you all talk if its wrong to use NOE or not

but its more easy to bomb without a bombsight going NOE its faster to get to the base for the bombing going NOE  and since most MA does not care about living climbing 15k to ensure life is not going to happen anytime soon.
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Offline DamnedRen

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2004, 05:00:49 PM »
The MA bombing runs suck. It makes a mockery out of people who practice to perfect the bombing system as it was intended to be. People who learn the way the system was implemented, practice making flight plans and approach paths, tinkering with the Norden-ish bombsight.


Interesting comment who's name I've omitted as the content shows perhaps a lack of understanding of the what actually happened during the war.  95% of all bombing raids were a bust because they could'nt hit the broad side of a town with them. Why do you think they sent so many bombers over a target? Bombing was inaccurate until radar bombing came into being. Now we have laser guided bombs that go through windows.

What's all the mean to me? If I wanna bomb I get up and bomb.
That fact that I can hit most of what I aim at tells me that the game I'm playing is fun. The fact the I can get shot down flying bombers tells me other players are having fun too. Guess what I shoot down some of the planes too. That can be fun!

I guess when it stops being fun I'll try something else. Doesn't everyone? I'm in this game cause I'm having fun. Come to think of it I've been having fun for over a decade now. That must say something for these games be it perked planes or not.

Ren

Offline Overlag

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2004, 05:23:55 PM »
some bomber crews got bombing down to a fine art though.

same here, you have the select few that can hit at 100% success rate, but most cant hit jack **** ;)
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline glenmorangie

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2004, 10:12:09 PM »
The major factor in low-level bombing being so common is there is no penalty for going low. You don't actually die.  Bomber and fighter losses were much higher at low altitude.  Even in the B-29s.  B-29s were lost because they lost control at 5,000 ft in the convection caused by the firestorm.

The 8th Air Force started recording ground kills because it was so dangerous to go down in the flak and get them.

In the game, I find little difference in survivability with altitude. IRL, the bombers went high because more of them came home if they did.  Tactics and altitudes varied widely and low-altitudes and delayed fusing were used where it made more sense ( and it could be survived ), usually in the Pacific.

In the game, at altitude, the radar sees you and allows intercepts and you die, often before the bomb run.  At low altitude, at least they don't see you quicky enough to react.  I RTB in bombers about 1 out of 5 times, usually only when there is little opposition.  BTW, I still fly high.

NOE heavies is un-realistic, but it represents folks adapting tactics to the reality of 'combat'.

I think bomb-drop angles should be accurate for the aircraft.
I think bomb detonation damage should be more accurate so the attacker must stay higher.
I think flak should be more lethal for bigger targets, or use Kweassa's idea of rings of flak around the bases.

If you die 9 out of 10 times trying to strafe/bomb a base with a Buff, you'll adapt and try something else.  Do we go straight in on base ack and straight out? I bet we all have learned to manuever.

Otherwise, the only thing that will slow this down is a penalty for death, which I think would cause a bigger argument than the ENY deal.

Alternately, simulate ground observers, as were used in the Battle of Britain to report low-level contacts.  Oh, boy, another can of worms...

Maybe the answer is teamwork.  Advance Jabos to kill the dar, scorts right there with you.  We could get some ex-Redtails to teach us how to escort...they obviously had it figured out.


Offline Overlag

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2004, 04:54:34 AM »
i recon once bombers are over 15k it shouldnt show up on dar bar, only dot dar.... but then some maps would need dot dar coverage behind the HQ etc.
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline FiLtH

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2004, 08:12:16 AM »
Bombers should be at 19-20k min.  Up there you see few fighters, and the ones you see, you have a good chance of killing. If you attack at that alt...rtb % is like 90%. And yes you kill bldgs too.

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Offline koda76

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2004, 10:44:07 AM »
I think the low level bombing is a matter of choice, If you don't have the alt you are bait for the furballers, so it's a choice.
And low level/dive bombing was practiced out of Forbes field with mixed results. Lots of unexploded ord and as far as I know the result of 2 crashes, both west of Topeka Ks.
Most bombers were used for high alt bombing just because they wanted to make it to the target with less resistance,stay above AA and it lncreased the chances that all of the ord would detonate. As for Dive bombing that reportably was the cause of the 2 crashes so I don't think that was an approved method. and from what my grandfather had told me the angle to release the bombs couldn't be over approx. 10-15 degrees (up or down) with out jamming the bombs in the bomb bay rack.
(another note: after each run the bomb sites were removed and secured under heavy guard)

Offline JimBear

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #97 on: September 27, 2004, 11:43:19 AM »
Once Upon a Time in this game, alot of bases sat on plateau's where a Bomber Pilot actually had gear up and 5,000 of air under them. Maybe more of those would encourage folks to take a few minutes and learn to use the bombsite as well as gather a few more feet under them?

One thing is for sure, each person who really dislikes the shrub farming buffs needs to set the example in the MA. Stand in the street and stare at the sky, eventually you'll gather a crowd looking up... or a cop ;)

Offline RT

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The Climb Time Factor
« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2004, 11:53:02 AM »
If we had more hi alt bases to roll from I wouldn't mind bombing from altitude.  The two reasons I fly bombers on the deck are because they are undetectable below dar, and because I do not wish to spend 20 minutes climbing to medium alt.  

I do not fly fighters at alt either.  I rarely get above 10k.  This is a game and play time gets wasted climbing.  My experience in fighters at alt is that after you get someone defensive they dive for home and friendlies.  No criticism that decision offers better chance for them.  But it means you either let them go or chase them low.  So, I stay low and invite those who spent time grabn to come on down and get me.  Better them burning up their time than me.  

I don't have any issues with anyone and what people fly and how they play is ok with me.  Even the players who intentionally ping gvs to pick up cheap kills are not responsible for problems with how the game awards kills.  

Recent experience air to air:  upt 190a8 at a13 to meet inbound fleet fighters.  Landed 2 kills.  7 assists despite watching all 7 get sawed in half or blown apart into pieces.  The planes were not smoking or missing major parts etc before I hit them, and I hit them from fairly close range while they were turning.

Kills awarded for merely pinging a tank or plane is a defect and might deserve our attention.

Offline Karnak

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2004, 12:33:48 PM »
Well, maybe it is time to introduce some gameyness to try to get more realistic results.

Say if the nearest enemy base is between 35 and 50 miles away level bombers can airstart at 10,000ft and 180mph indicated airspeed.  If the nearest enemy base is more than 50 miles away then level bombers can airstart at 20,000ft, 180mph indicated airspeed.

Is it gamey?  Sure is.  Will it make the game more realistic?  Maybe.  It might have a shot.  It would certainly increase the number of bombers at altitude.


The bombsite isn't that hard to use.  Hitting cities from 22,000ft is a piece of cake.  To take out individual hangars I don't go above 14,000ft.  I hardly get a lot of practice.  It is simply using the calibration routine, holding the marker for more than 15 seconds and not deviating my course by more than 5 degrees after the final calibration.
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Offline bj229r

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #100 on: September 27, 2004, 05:02:25 PM »
HMMM...mebbe some hi-alt bases which can launch only buffs?  (withOUT the $#@$#%$ mountains at end of $#%$#% runway)
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