Author Topic: Two reasons AH2 doesn't work  (Read 3177 times)

Offline Raider179

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BarCap
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2004, 01:01:35 AM »
Anyone ever hear of a BarCap? I have never seen lancs get a CV from low alt unless the protecting fighters are not doing their job. Cap your CVs you wont lose them to low lancs/17s whatever.

Offline DoKGonZo

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2004, 01:23:53 AM »
No one wants to get rid of bombers.

But using formations on the deck is an abuse of why that feature was added to the game. It was put in so that the guys who took the time and effort to use strategic bombers as strategic bombers stood a better chance of surviving. It was not put there to provide 2 extra lives and 3X the defensive gunnery to people too lazy to even learn how to use the bomb sight.

I'd love to see a tactical bomb sight added to planes like the A20 and IL2 so that bomber pilots had more options. I'd love to see CV's and CA's need torpedo hits to sink so that bomber pilots became more important to achieving objectives. I'd love to see cities imune to small calibre cannons so that people really needed the bomber guys to reduce cities for base capture.

But the constant NOE attacks of heavy bomber formations is really messing up gameplay. Sorry. It just is.

     -DoK

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2004, 01:35:36 AM »
Quote
Anyone ever hear of a BarCap? I have never seen lancs get a CV from low alt unless the protecting fighters are not doing their job. Cap your CVs you wont lose them to low lancs/17s whatever.


 BarCAP works against people who are thinking straight. It's useless against suicidal people.

 Buffs are tuff. Need heavily armed planes to bring them down quick. Even cannoned armed planes have problems setting up an attack position if the buffs come in at 300mph at 500ft altitude.

 Considering average skill level of normal MA pilots it takes about 2~3 pilots per one bomber to bring it down. To knock a whole formation out of the sky before it does any damage, it takes at least 4~5 people to do it.

 Consider a contest between fields. 10 people at each side. One field has 10 pilots in fighters, other has seven in fighters and three in bomber formations.
 
 That makes total 9 bombers which have to be brought down, which takes more than the total number of all of the 10 pilots in fighter planes of the opposing side, to do it in time. And time is short - since dar detection is hardly available when they come in NOE.

 So, assuming about 30 mile distance between the two fields, the 10 defending fighters must face nine bombers and seven fighters.

 The defending side can allocate perhaps about half of the fighters into air superiority contest, but it leaves only five to deal with nine bombers which location is detected 8 miles away from the field.

 These five guys can shoot down perhaps 3~4 bombers, but the rest 5~6 makes it to the field and sprays.

 Why do you think buffers keep doing that shi*? Because it works, and they know its effective.

Offline Arlo

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2004, 03:19:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
No one wants to get rid of bombers.

But using formations on the deck is an abuse of why that feature was added to the game. It was put in so that the guys who took the time and effort to use strategic bombers as strategic bombers stood a better chance of surviving. It was not put there to provide 2 extra lives and 3X the defensive gunnery to people too lazy to even learn how to use the bomb sight.

I'd love to see a tactical bomb sight added to planes like the A20 and IL2 so that bomber pilots had more options. I'd love to see CV's and CA's need torpedo hits to sink so that bomber pilots became more important to achieving objectives. I'd love to see cities imune to small calibre cannons so that people really needed the bomber guys to reduce cities for base capture.

But the constant NOE attacks of heavy bomber formations is really messing up gameplay. Sorry. It just is.

     -DoK


The Blood Pig [/b]

This was going to be great: two gunned F/A-26's attacking A3.

TANGO CIRCUS (aka TC) was piloting the first ship, with DoK as his gunner. Flush Garden was piloting the second, with Cap'n Trips gunning.

They launched from C2 and set course around the Westward mountain and a shallow climb. They wanted to be at about 3000 feet when they came around the mountain and the A's saw them. All went according to plan - they turned the corner and enterred the Valley of Death at exactly 3000 feet. The could see that the A's were just about off of radar to the North. They were starting a large raid on B-land. A3 was practically undefended.

"Lets go," TC said ... and started the F/A-26 down. Both ships quickly gathered speed and A3 was coming up fast.

"I'll take the West ack, you take the East," TC called over the radio to Flush. Flush responded with a quick "rgr."

A3 was now in sight, they could make out the dots where the acks were. "All guns forward," DoK called. TC and Flush were on their bomb runs and it would be up to the gunners to suppress planes taking off until the ack was killed. Trips and DoK jumped to their lower turrets and tracked the A3 take-off spot.

Both ships were now just about at the release point when a Zero appeared at A3. "FIRE," DoK yelled. Trips and DoK opened up at the edge of their range at the Zeke which had just started to taxi. They saw hits on the plane just as TC and Flush both called "Bombs away" and pulled up into chandelles to avoid the AAA.

In quick succession the kill messages for the two ack-acks and the lone Zeke appeared on the screen. A set of "HAR!"'s errupted on the radio as the F/A-26's cranked around to land. This was the tricky part. The pilots had to land in direct line about 150 yards behind the take-off spot. They were vulnerable during this stage because they were going too slow to manouever much.

TC and Flush dropped flaps and gear and executed break turns to get into the right pattern. TC touched down first and hit the brakes, Flush was down seconds later. As they inched their way up to the "sweet spot" behind the runway, that same Zero appeared again. The gunners openned up first and killed him in seconds.

By now both planes were side-by-side behind the A3 take-off spot. All turrets were aimed forward, plus the pilot's guns. That made 24 .50 calibre machine guns bore-sighted down the runway.

The A's were starting to die up at B1, so soon they would be trying to take off. The crews of the F/A-26's waited impatiently. But not for long. Soon A's started popping up from the take-off spot. They must have been deciding on a plan inside the field. All guns openned up and the A's dropped like turds out the back of a galloping horse.

Being A's, they kept trying to take off. And they kept getting shot down. Usually before getting 100 yards down the runway. A few started trying to turn off the tarmac the instant they got on the field. This got them out from in front of the main guns, but the turrets then followed them and they were soon quickly killed.

The A's tried taking up a B17 with a tail gunner, but it was no match for the firepower of 2 A26's. The A's now started screaming on the radio about what was happening at their base. This just made the folks in the F/A-26's break out into hysterical laughter. A3 was now in complete turmoil. Planes were dying on the runway almost as fast as they appeared, the few that managed to escape the runway were struggling to stay aloft long enough to get a shot at the two F/A-26's before the gunners did them in.

The A's did eventually hit on the idea of taking off from some field other than A3 and attacking the parked bombers from above. But decades of inbreeding caused them to auger in during their firing runs before being able to register a fatal hit. And, of course, it never occured to them to bring bombs.

Ammunition was now running low, and it looked like a good time to try to break for home. So TC and Flush cranked up their engines. As they sped along gathering speed, they noticed that the planes would not get off the ground. The wings had taken so much dmage, that they were now useless.

"Damn, wings shot to ****," TC said.

"Looks like we drive home," DoK replied.

So the two F/A-26's reduced throttle and started driving back to C2. It was a long drive, but they had plenty of fuel and many, many scalps to get back to base with. A few A's tried to follow, but most fell to either the top turret gunners or to their own galactic stupidity.

It took almost 20 minutes, but eventually the two newly christened "Blood Pigs" made it back to base. The four pilots and gunners were all laughing so hard over the devestation and chaos they had caused, they had to log off for half an hour to collect themselves.

Once tanks and FlakPanzers came onto the scene, BloodPigging became far less prevalent. Once in a while you'll still see one - usually parked on a carrier, waiting for an unsuspecting dweeb in a Zeke to take off.
 
- by DoK GonZo

:D

Offline -tronski-

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2004, 03:30:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Uh ... in the cases you cite, I assume people, like, y'know, survived?

Is survival part of the plane with the MA NOE attacks? No. Why drag 3 planes in like that and give away 3X the number of kills? Well, they're free and it improves your odds of lasting long enough to drop on target.

It's an abuse of why formations were put in. Perk *just* formations and then if you want to use level bombers in the way they were intended, you go up with a few friends and you have 9 or 12 '17s in the box and you are damned dangerous at 25K.

    -DoK


Actually they did survive because they had air superiority...as for the abuse of the formations..bah, make every fighter go up in groups then..no singles!

Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Why do you think buffers keep doing that shi*? Because it works, and they know its effective.


Formations obviously increase protection, and the ability to hit a target. Whether I go in at 8k/15k/or 20k, (unless in a mission) there is zero protection from fighters, unless the targets already being capped by friendlies. My only object is make target and drop...how anyone defends against that is their problem, and if it makes it hard for them because I'm at 5-8k is their problem not mine

Sigh, perhaps I should start trying high speed runs in P-51's seeing how thats more in the spirit of the game...than level bombing under 10k

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline simshell

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2004, 04:24:38 AM »
2 nights in a Row


it was very late in the night not many people on me and my squad leader take a CV to a enemy field i up a F4UC for Cap over the CV and he pounds the field with the cruiser

now 1 guy ups Lancs and trys to get to the CV and i blast him with help we kill all of them

2 mins late same guy ups JU88s and i was able to get 2 of them and then the 3 but he already got 1 torpedo into the CV

1 min later my squad leader tells me that the same guy is uping a form of B17s going for Alt so i go to intercept him while hes low

now this guy is just a scary gunner and rips my F4UC badd with oil everware im forced to RTB  

then i get back into the air in my F4UC and i dont see him anyware so i do some 1on1s with a LALA and win both then here comes the same B17s at 10k then this guy puts it into a dive bomb and then dive bombs the CV pulls out and flys away at 300+ in the B17 on the deck

anybody see anything wrong with this?
known as Arctic in the main

Offline MOIL

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2004, 04:32:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
SIMply amazing. :D [/B]


Isn't it  tho

Offline Darkish

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« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2004, 04:32:44 AM »
Yea - upping from the cv gave the attack away and the gun's target should have been town not field.

I'd 'v tried sneaking it ;)

Offline simshell

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« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2004, 04:36:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Darkish
Yea - upping from the cv gave the attack away and the gun's target should have been town not field.

I'd 'v tried sneaking it ;)



it already started it would not have matterd if i uped later
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Offline MOIL

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« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2004, 04:42:12 AM »
Simshell:
"then i get back into the air in my F4UC and i dont see him anyware so i do some 1on1s with a LALA and win both then here comes the same B17s at 10k then this guy puts it into a dive bomb and then dive bombs the CV pulls out and flys away at 300+ in the B17 on the deck

anybody see anything wrong with this?"



Sure do, it's called "gamey"   that's what this is,  a game. If it were more like a "sim"  they prob wouldn't take that approach or tactic to attack a carrier group.

My thoughts,  arm the ships with CORRECT gun platforms with all manable postions.
Don't ya remember the WWII footage of the Kamikazi's attacking our ships?

Offline homer

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2004, 05:16:36 AM »
Deleted
« Last Edit: September 22, 2004, 08:34:07 AM by hitech »

Offline Raider179

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2004, 02:40:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by simshell
2 nights in a Row


anybody see anything wrong with this?


yeah almost impossible for two guys to capture a base.  CV deserved to get sunk.

Offline DoKGonZo

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2004, 02:55:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
The Blood Pig

... [/B]


Yeah Arlo. Those were singles. We fought our way in and out. Only a few of us were good enough to pull it off - others tried, but they all sucked and died before even getting close. Why do you think the first AA GV's came into being anyway? :-)

That's still very different from what we now have where most bombers come in at absurd altitudes and angles just to dump ord and die. We never expected to die - we had to drive home about a third of the time, but we expected to get home.

Just be very glad I've "mellowed" in my old age and am trying to fix this instead of take advantage of it.

    -DoK

Offline bustr

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« Reply #73 on: September 22, 2004, 03:05:59 PM »
Ratz and here I thought you would help us get Blood Pigs reinstated. I loved accidental Blood Pig duels. Always found the other one by accident while being punishing by a feild.:)
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline kj714

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Two reasons AH2 doesn't work
« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2004, 03:45:55 PM »
Two reasons AH2 doesn't work -

1. Your computer
2. Your connection