F4U1C needs to be removed

[Animal]

I agree with Santa. Chogs are not so bad compared to nikis. In fact when i see a cgaeue i smiled and kill it.
its easy to kill unless u go ho.

forgive me i am drunk

[Fishu]

Hog C has one bad problem, it's guns are somewhat powerful antitank guns, if you go compare those to any other plane (this does not include other hispano anti-tank gun equiped ones.. same gun in those then)
Those are out of match in tank killing..

[-duma-]

Well, once you get your time machine, you can go back to the 1930s, get a day job in the arms industry and then change all that, can't you fishu?

[StSanta]

duma, I think his point is that the way the Hispano ammo type is modelled now, they get ALL the advantages of AP AND HE, and none of the vices. HT said they used a "mixture" of common loadout configs to determine hitting power to simulate r rounds AP, one round HE, one round incediary etc.

The prob, of course, is if you take all these properties and put them into one single round. Then you have something that can destroy a  tank but also blast (not tear or shear) a wing off an aircraft.

Anyone whoo has seen the damage done y a modern infantry carried AP shot knmows what I'm talking about. One was used by Bandidos at a Hells Angels place here some years ago - just a tiny hole in the wall. The person who was killed died because he or she was directly in the path of the grenade.

A HE round, and the building would have had substantial damage.

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[LLv34_Snefens]

Yeah I remember the pic of that building when the rocker-war raged, but I believed that was a hollow-charge that was fired right? I seem to recall several of the people in the house got burns.

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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34

[indian]

Should have been at the con Pyro had rounds from the 20mm there and the hispano's were much beefier so they would have a more powerful punch.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage

[Ripsnort]

What Verm and Indian said:

In addition,
~ I think the P51 should be removed, its too uber, it can run from all other A/C.  

"Anytime you can engage, and disengage from the enemy, you've won already won half the battle"

 Thus, it already has an advantage over 95% of the A/C in AH.  Not fair.
~Niki should be removed, its cannons are lethal,and it can out-accelerate any F4U that loses E or is co-alt with Niki.
~Spit should be removed, it has the same cannon as F4U but can B and Z well, as can turn better than F4U.
~Tiffy should be removed, it has the same cannon as F4U-1C and is faster, as as nimble as the F4U below 15k
~Yak should be removed, though it has low ammo and 1 cannon, it can catch the F4U in level flight.

Need I say more?  LATE MODEL PLANES  


[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 10-15-2000).]

[sax]

get rid of all of them
six shooters at 30 paces should be all 1.05
needs

[RBNN]

hmm
I was accused last night of being an HO dweeb by Mino. Thought it was funny because I NEVER fly the corsair, but for some reason decided to ride it for a change of pace. I was up with 3 enemies near a11, and I had a few friendly ostwinds (thanks Mighty1 dzd!) below me. I was just trying to drag them into the ostwinds. I'm not good enough to get that corsair turned around and I've read about the N1K being so deadly that he had me peeing in my pants lol. So I did what any brave fighting pilot would do. I dove for the osty! I think Mighty/dzd got all of them, and I may have gotten credit for one of the kills, I can't remember..
Anyway... I was killed eventually anyway.. sorry Mino if you thought I was trying to HO you on purpose.. I was only trying to save my cowardly skin, lol...
What's my point?? Just that why bother complaining about this issue. I would prefer a historical time/plane set, but I know that doesn't always work..For now.. Find a way to beat it. I would think that would be a great challenge for all you expert pilots..

[Hangtime]

About the only time I fly I Chog is when the alert sirens howl.. and it's BUFFS COMMIN!

The damn thing is mercilless against a Buff; and the loadout is sufficent to down 4 or 5 b17's or lanc's. And I've done it several timec.. (hangs head in shame) me culpa! For the homeland!

ATA against a Chog is a damn pain in the ass.. (gawd; I wish for a HA so my pony need not face these monsters) 2 outta 10 of these things are piloted by Gods; and they simply cannot be killed in a close fight by me.. pilot skills and knowledge of our camparitive stengths and weaknesses count the victory for the Chog.. he can turn better and has better low speed performance than a pony. If I can catch him while he's still fast I can turn all over him. Slow; he's as deadly as a spit ot nicki.. even more so when I see a front aspet shot commin up. Key to stayin alive around a hawg is to stay fast as hell and tag him when he gets buzy with somebody else.

What fouls me up the most is gettin outta the way of his shots.. all he's gotta do is hit me once... just once; anywhere; and I'm confetti.

Yah; it's a tuff plane. In the hands of a pilot like DMF; Torque and Duma, it's a very very lethal airplane. But then again; a ColtAN2 in those guys hands would give me fits too.  

Nolo contendre. I don't advocate removing anything... but if it's FM is wrong, it should be fixed. That spin thingy I've seen, and marveled at.. hell my pony drops into nightmare spins that take frantic amounts of work and time to recover from. Them hawgs seem to levitate in spins. Wher'ed he get sucha big sack of 'e' anyway? I don't understand what the observed diffrences are between the 1c and the 1d. Ain't they both the same plane FM wize?

Hang

[Yeager]

Most everyone seems to disagree with me but thats what I expected.

Point One: the FM of the Chog most apparently has flaws (Much like the 190A5 pre 1.04).  

Many planes have been sent to the OR for emergency rework.  Some started with flaws, others received flaws in recent updates.  With 1.04, the Chog has a problem.  It retains energy beyond what should be expected and its continuous turn capability seems over extended.  Its burst roll seems alright and its climb seems close enough.

Point Two: The guns.  This is where Pyro and HiTech screwed up ever bringing the plane into the game.  I dont suggest the guns are incorrect.  I suggest the guns should never have been added, thus remove the F4U1C.

Far more F6F-5Ns were manufactured with the quad 20 package than the F4U1C so we should have that version as well?  Some P51 varients had the quad 20 so lets grab that one?

Again:
The F4U1C has a generously flawed FM and needs to be reworked ASAP.

Bringing the quad 20mm F4U into the game was a mistake.  It is unworthy and requires no mojo.

That is all.

Yeager

[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 10-15-2000).]

[Hooligan]

Sheesh yeager:

You don't like the plane so remove it from the game.  What kind of sense does that make?  Can I start picking planes I don't like and have them removed?

Think about what you are asking here.

Hooligan

[Hangtime]

Hooligan; Yeags been around for a long; long time. He don't cry wolf, and is certainly entitled to an opinion, and be heard.

He's not advocating that everybody gets to have their most hated plane removed in some kind of 'ok, it's your turn to pick one to boot' format.

He's pointed out that he perceives attributes to an A/C that disrupt the MA. We may all disagree that the plane should be removed from play, but the perceived attributes still remain... and his point regaring FM and subtle FM changes is certainly valid... something seems not right.

If nothing else, if it prompts Pyro to recheck the F4U1c's FM (and I hope the niki's too) then well and good.

On a lighter note, gimme a plane to fight a niki with.. a F6F-5N w/2 2Omm and 4 '50's. Oh yah. I like that idea.  

Hang


[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 10-15-2000).]

[eskimo]

Last night I was on high patrol in my spit and spotted a low-e hog.  I was out of cannon, and had only 91 rounds of mg left.  I decided that whatever I was going to do I would hold my fire until I was close enough for a sure kill.  
I just WEPed in behind him, and held my fire untill I was D-200. Released the trigger at D-100 when he was nothing but fuslage.  
Easiest kill I have had in months.

The dude sent me a personal 1 min later,... he was in the can.  LOL

Otherwise, hogs seem to be able to outmanuver my spit at all speeds.  I have been doing much better against them in head-ons.  Even the Zero HOs a C-hog well.

eskimo

[Pappy]

Take the Chog out put the F4U-4 in, other wise dry yer eyes and play.