D.C. personal protection act

[Nash]

Originally posted by lazs2
If I could prove to you that concealled carry people were not only not more likely to comit crime but far less likely.... would you then say that concealled carry was a good thing?

Only if crime overall goes down. It doesn't matter if the guys who are allowed to carry concealed weapons don't commit crimes, if the result of them being allowed to carry means more gun crime overall.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by KBall
The bill will fail in the Senate. The anti-gun Senators will vote anti-gun admendments into the original bill. Just like what happened to the firearm industry protection from reckless lawsuits bill.

I HIGHLY doubt that.  The reason there was no support to renew the suposed assault weapons ban was because the democrats KNOW they cannot get re-elected if they go after guns.  They (the democrats) have cited time and again the reason they are getting wooped back home in the elections is because of their anti gun stances in the senate.

[lazs2]

yes nash... the crime in those states goes down.  from a little to dramaticly.   And, it seems that the longer concealled carry is in effect the more crime goes down.

"More Guns Less Crime" by Lott is the best but His media bias book has more up to date data.  

but.. I will be honest... even if the evidence had shown that guns were a net liability, like watersports for instance,  instead of the asset that they are... I would still advocate the freedom to choose them for self defense and for a guard against tyranny.

lazs

[Curval]

Originally posted by lazs2
"More Guns Less Crime" by Lott is the best but His media bias book has more up to date data.  

 

I'm sure HIS stats are irrefutable, unlike others which you poo poo above.

[Nash]

Yeah, it will be interesting to watch... and if crime goes down then hey - that's fantastic.

As far as past stats go, they may be perfectly solid. But I dunno... There's a whole lot of factors (economic for one, like Sandman pointed out), and also a whole lotta ways to make stats bend.

So I don't bother with it. Not saying they're wrong... but...

This Washington thing, for me at least, will be a fresh new sort of benchmark. If things go well, all things considered, then the anti-gun guys won't have a leg to stand on.

[lazs2]

curval... I know you are smarter than that...

I did not poo poo the other stats I merely explained how they were missleading.  the data in those particular statements was mostly true.   and....

it is not Lott's data that we are talking about here.   he merely gathered it and some pretty bright and rabid anti gun groups with a lot of money at stake (contributions for their "cause")  have tried unsuccessfully to dispute his findings and the data he collected.   To date... only one minor "survey" was shown to not be accurate or exist and it played no part in what we are talking about here.

still.... where is the mounds of data by these anti gun nuts that would show that crime has increased in states with right to carry laws?   the very best they can do is show a few counties where it hasn't gon down...... much.

lazs

[lazs2]

nash... these are not old stats... they are continueing stats.  The longer concealed carry is allowed the lower the crime rates.   This is the data from over thirty states as oppossed to the one that may or may not happen (DC)...

how long does/would the DC law have to be in effect before you called it rellevant data?   a day? a week?  a year?.... years?

simply look at the states that have had their human right to carry restored.   Some are quite recent.

lazs

[ra]

Poverty is a symptom of Washington's messed up culture more than a cause.   The government has spent the last 40 years trying to be the Nanny with the result that many citizens of DC are perpetual 14 year olds.  At the start of every school year the schools have to turn away hundreds of kids who haven't been properly vaccinated.  The parents just didn't have a clue.

Allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns is a good start in putting responsibilty back were it belongs.  

The mayor of DC is also pushing for school vouchers, much to the dismay of the race/poverty pimps.

Maybe there's hope for that rotten city.


ra

[lazs2]

so nash.... when DC passes the stictest gun laws in the country and crime and homicide go up 76% .... that is bvecause of other factors like economics?   but if the law is for more gun rights and crime lessens then.... that is not because of firearms but because of.... economics?

and.... the data in other states is not relevant because.... it is a year or more of data?   What counts.... one days data picked out by the brady bunch?   or.... 99% of all homicides happen to people at where a gun is within 5 miles of the victim? (counting poilice)

lazs

[Curval]

Just a quick search reveals that it was more than just one survey he was wrong about here

Now, what about your crystal ball?  Can I borrow it?

[Nash]

I aint saying I'm going about it the right way... It's just gonna be what works for me.

And by not reading Lotts book or anything like that, I know I'm not able to form a rounded opinion about it. So I haven't. S'why I don't participate in gun threads.

If the DC law passes, I'm going to quietly note as much about the conditions and trends of the place over last few years. Then I'm going to wait a few more and note the conditions at that point. Then I'm going to look at the gun/crime stats. Hopefully something becomes clear.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by lazs2
it is obvious that two such well adjusted folk would never have been injured if it weren't for evil 22 caliber firearms.

still... if you ban weapons all the way down to the lowly 22.... you end up with the messy prospect of 9 iron or cricket paddle beatings.

lazs

Reminds me of Australia. Guess you've heard that with guns now banned there is a move to ban swords as well (may have already happened). Guess golf clubs and cricket paddles are next.

[Curval]

Here's an interesting article from an Austrailian source regarding Lott:

Gun Lobby Lies

More stuff about Lott here:

I haven't read the book but from this article I can see where lazs gets some of his ideas

Check out the first two items under "Lott's Other Wacky Ideas".  Lazs, did you cut and paste HIS thoughts and use them as your own in previous posts?

Some older, but still relevant news

Shall I continue?

With all of Lott's flipping and flopping about his identity and his statistics he reminds me of...well...Kerry.

[Torque]

The dog ate my gun, and my surveys.

[AKIron]

http://www.downunderwebsites.com/aussielawswords.htm

Why don't they just ban testicles and be done with it?