foriegners here and the U.S. election...

[lazs2]

Ok... watching the posts from the guys on this BB from other countries I am sometimes awed by their hate for Bush.... I mean they act like it is the most important thing in their lives or that... more accurately.... they have information that is being with held from us poor Americans.

I realize it is a very small sampling of the world here but with the exception of say curval and beetle (who are money guys) the rest of the posters seem violently anti Bush.

now... it it because they are flamingly socialist and liberal or.... is it because all the media that they are bombarded with on a daily basis is really that one sided?

my guess is that the media in their countries is strongly anti American and anti Bush.   I believe this because these posters seem so.....

gulible and clueless... they seem to be secure in their thinking that if they just get the facts out that "everyone" knows about how evil Bush is then.... the Americans on this board will suddenly be enlightened and the election will swing the logical way.  This kind of thinking can only be because of a HUGE support group in the media and "common knowledge".

It appears that ,barring something really dramatic.... Bush will win with a pretty handy electorial advantage.   I think that the Americans here will take a victory by either candidate in (more or less) stride but... I think the foriegn posters will feel.... betrayed and it will simply increase their hate for the U.S.

that is my take on it.

lazs

[Scootter]

Interesting points, I am always kind amazed after all the name calling and finger pointing the loser will shake hands with the winner and life goes on.

When Clinton won we survived as we survived when Reagan was in office, folks would do well to remember we in this country bicker and ***** a lot but we are family and move on after the politics wear off.

I do feel a more conservative trend in this country lately, I guess these things run in cycles, the number of collage age voters registering as Rep. is at a 25 year high FWIW.

I think the left swing in Europe is out of sync with the right swing here and the media does in fact have a lot to do with this.

[TweetyBird]

Yea Laz, I'll just jot down Canadians on the list of people to hate in order to be a good dittohead. Man, this list is getting long.
But we aint crazy - the rest of the world is.

Oxydittos

[Nash]

The only thing your post needed to make it complete was to have it end with:

LOL LOL BUSH IN A LANDSLIDE!

This whole thing seems pretty upsetting to you, Lazs...

[AKIron]

While I'll be somewhat relieved to see Bush win by a landslide as it will restore my faith in the American people it might be more interesting to see a closer race and to what extent the libs will go to in once again claiming a "stolen" election. Hmmmm, confidence in Americans or a good laugh? Guess I'll have to go with confidence.

[TweetyBird]

Yea put your faith in the administration that failed to concieve of planes used as missiles, warlords who might let Al Queda slip away, or Iraqis who might change clothes and fight a guerilla war.

Twent twenty hind sight right? No. People have be screaming about the fact that 90% of container ships arriving in America are uninspected. An ya know what- they still are uninspected.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
Yea put your faith in the administration that failed to concieve of planes used as missiles, warlords who might let Al Queda slip away, or Iraqis who might change clothes and fight a guerilla war.

Twent twenty hind sight right? No. People have be screaming about the fact that 90% of container ships arriving in America are uninspected. An ya know what- they still are uninspected.

Better than putting faith in the guy who voted to cut intelligence spending by 1.5 billion after 9/11. The same guy who sat for 45 minutes "unable to think" after the first plane hit the WTC.

Same guy that won't fund the troops, then says it's wrong to not give the troops everything they need. Real winner there Tweety.

Yeah, I trust Kerry will do everything he can to get to at least one intelligence breifing in a year.

And the cargo ships? How are we supposed to search all of them? Maybe they can sit at sea for 6 months until they are all searched.

What's Kerry's plan to search the cargo ships?

[lazs2]

Hate who you like tweety... I don't advocate hating anyone based on country of origin tho.

seems there are some Americans on here that think the election is being stolen by..... by what?   certainly you can't believe that the media here is biased toward Bush?

lazs

[FUNKED1]

Lazs it's pretty simple, their government officials were being paid off, and after that it was just a matter of brainwashing the sheeple.  And don't forget that their corporations have even more political influence than do ours, due to the hybrid socialist system of most of these countries.

Saddam Bought French, Russian UN Votes with Oil-For-Food Program
The London Times ^ | 10/03/04 | Robert Winnett

"A LEAKED report has exposed the extent of alleged corruption in the United Nations’ oil-for-food scheme in Iraq, identifying up to 200 individuals and companies that made profits running into hundreds of millions of pounds from it.

The report largely implicates France and Russia, whom Saddam Hussein targeted as he sought support on the UN Security Council before the Iraq war. Both countries were influential voices against UN-backed action.

A senior UN official responsible for the scheme is identified as a major beneficiary. The report, marked “highly confidential”, also finds that the private office of Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, profited from the cheap oil. Saddam’s regime awarded this oil during the run-up to the war when military action was being discussed at the UN.

The report was drawn up on behalf of the interim Iraqi government in preparation for a possible legal action against those who may have illicitly profited under Saddam. The Iraqis hired the London-based accountants KPMG and lawyers Freshfields to advise on future action.

It details a catalogue of alleged bribery and corruption perpetrated by Saddam under the UN programme, revealing how the regime lined its pockets and those of influential politicians, journalists and UN officials.

The UN oil-for-food scheme was set up in 1995 to allow Iraq to sell controlled amounts of oil to raise money for humanitarian supplies. However, the leaked report reveals Saddam systematically abused the scheme, using it to buy “political influence” throughout the world.

The former Iraqi regime was in effect free to “allocate” oil to whom it wished. Dozens of private individuals were given oil at knockdown prices. They were able to nominate recognised traders to buy the cheap oil from the Iraqi state oil firm and sell it for a personal profit.

The report says oil was given to key countries: “The regime gave priority to Russia, China and France. This was because they were permanent members of, and hence had the ability to influence decisions made by, the UN Security Council. The regime . . . allocated ‘private oil’ to individuals or political parties that sympathised in some way with the regime.”

The report also details how the regime benefited by arranging illegal “kickbacks” from oil sales.

From September 2000, it is said Saddam made $228m (£127m) from kickbacks deposited in accounts across the Middle East. The analysis details only the export of oil — not the import of humanitarian supplies, also alleged to have been riddled with corruption.

The report is an interim analysis and therefore studies only a sample of oil contracts.

The other main allegations included in the report are that:

Benon Sevan, director of the UN oil-for-food programme, received 9.3m barrels of oil from the regime which he is estimated to have sold for a profit of £670,000. Sevan has always denied any improper conduct.

A former senior aide to Putin allegedly organised the sale of almost 4m barrels of oil at a profit of more than £330,000. At the time the oil was sold, Russia was blocking the UN from supporting America’s demands to attack Iraq. According to the report, the aide, who worked in the presidential office, received 3.9m barrels of oil between May and December 2002.

In the two months during the run-up to the war, the Iraqi regime illegally sold about £30m of oil to a Jordanian-based company with the money deposited in a Jordanian bank account established by the regime. This is suspected to have been an attempt to secure safe passage for Saddam’s family in the event of war.

A French oil company teamed up with the regime to bribe a UN-appointed inspector monitoring exports of Iraqi oil. The inspector, a Portuguese national working for Saybolt, a Dutch firm, was paid a total of £58,000 in cash to forge export documents. The French firm is linked to a close associate of Jacques Chirac, the country’s president. A spokesman for Saybolt said it would be investigating the allegations.

Saddam imposed a surcharge of between 10 cents and 50 cents (5p to 27p) for every barrel of oil allocated by his regime between September 2000 and the end of 2002. The money raised from this illegal surcharge was deposited in bank accounts in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and the United Arab Emirates. Iraqi embassies, including those in Moscow, Athens, Cairo, Rome, Vienna and Geneva, collected the money.

In total, 175 firms and individuals allegedly paid bribes to secure oil from the regime. According to the report: “The only way of enforcing the surcharge was through verbal personal guarantees and promises due to the sensitivity of the surcharge and the secrecy surrounding its imposition. However, after extensive efforts in collecting these amounts, a total of $228m (£127m) out of $263m (£146m) was eventually collected (87% of the total imposed).

“Some companies were afraid to pay the amounts through the banking system, in order not to be exposed or face possible legal sanctions overseas, and therefore preferred to pay in cash.”

The report claims that Russians had a prominent role. They received “unprecedented priority” and were allocated a third of all Iraqi oil — most of which was resold to other nations. Besides Putin’s private office, those named as having received oil include political parties, Russian oil firms and the foreign ministry.

A section of the report on Russian involvement says Saddam and his henchmen furthered “their political and propagandist cause through companies, individuals and political parties that have no relation to the oil industry. Through their activities, they have gained the indebtedness of the Russian Federation and with that, its weight and leadership on the world stage as well as its permanent membership of the UN Security Council”.

Last week Claude Hankes-Drielsma, an Iraqi government adviser who worked on the investigation, confirmed the report as genuine. “The records demonstrate that the UN oil-for-food programme provided Saddam with a vehicle to buy support internationally by bribing political parties, companies, journalists and other individuals,” he said. “This shows the need for a complete review of the UN.”"

[lazs2]

ah... so you are saying that it is the old shell game?   that these governments and their government controlled media are conspiring to divert attention from their own wrongdoings?  

Are you claiming that their governments are acting in their own self interest are not being completely honest with their subjects?

lazs

[FUNKED1]

I am saying that in order to protect their financial interests they needed Saddam to stay in power, and the propaganda campaign to demonize Bush was just a means to that end.  The Ameristalker movement is just a residue of that campaign.

[SOB]

Originally posted by Nash
The only thing your post needed to make it complete was to have it end with:

LOL LOL BUSH IN A LANDSLIDE!

This whole thing seems pretty upsetting to you, Lazs...

OK, that's just misplaced.  You must be getting Lazs confused with Eagler - who must think Bush is real dreamy, 'cause he gets all goofy and retarded when he talks about him.  Lazs is just a crotchety old AARP member who likes to sit on his porch and clean his guns when he's not shooting at zombies (Zombies being defined as the undead and/or anyone who wants to take away his right to own his guns)

[Fishu]

Originally posted by lazs2

my guess is that the media in their countries is strongly anti American and anti Bush.   I believe this because these posters seem so.....

I'm getting annoyed by someones everytime pulling off the 'anti-american' card, when it couldn't be further from the truth.

Do you even yourself know what is an anti-american?
Someone who doesn't agree with everything Bush says and does?

WRONG.


Have you already forgot what democracy is and that there are other countries who can disagree, without being anti-american?
With all these quick anti-american blames, the USA is full of anti-americans.
I guess most of the Kerry voters are anti-americans then... funny for an american to be anti-american.

[SOB]

Fishu hates Amurrikah.  Stinky foreigner.

[lazs2]

actually... I am not a fan of Bush in any way.   I think he is way too liberal and owes too much to the religious right.   I fear organized religion but not as much as I fear socialism and "proggressives"  

I will be happy to see Bush win because he will appoint conservatrive supreme court justices.

lazs