Author Topic: Fw-190D-9 and the Eastern Front (Read 2411 times)

Tilt · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2004, 05:49:53 PM »

You have to be carefull with the term "Eastern front" when looking toward the last few months of the GPW.

I could find no active Doras on the Eastern front prior to February 45 when I looked for a scenario.

By March the Red Army had advanced so far that the LW were using German fields as forward bases for the air war over Prussia and Poland.

There were no D9's in the Baltic IFAIK.

There were no D9's over Czechaslovakia IFAIK.

So what we see in the dieing months of the GPW was the LW using home bases for both Eastern and Western fronts and as such ac were able to switch between them.

Hence during this period the VVS met up with most LW AC types still in service. Even 262's.

Wotan · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2004, 06:14:22 PM »

As Tilt said there were no D9s in the Baltics. Most people consider the "Eastern Front" anything east of Berlin. With that in mind I have a film of D9s taking off from a field in Germany carrying bombs.

This was a mass scramble of 15 + aircraft. Included were late war 109s. The field was water logged and several 190s almost nose over as they hit thick patches of mud.

Rudel for instance flew a D9 on Jabo missions.

My point being whatever service the D9 saw in the "Eastern Front" was limited to the very end of the war at which time the "Eastern Front" was pressed almost to the gates of Berlin.

Even then their useage would be consider "small".

Guppy35 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 11, 2004, 03:30:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
As Tilt said there were no D9s in the Baltics. Most people consider the "Eastern Front" anything east of Berlin. With that in mind I have a film of D9s taking off from a field in Germany carrying bombs.

This was a mass scramble of 15 + aircraft. Included were late war 109s. The field was water logged and several 190s almost nose over as they hit thick patches of mud.

Rudel for instance flew a D9 on Jabo missions.

My point being whatever service the D9 saw in the "Eastern Front" was limited to the very end of the war at which time the "Eastern Front" was pressed almost to the gates of Berlin.

Even then their useage would be consider "small".

I'm thinking that this is a still from the film Wotan mentioned. Captioned as a 190D12 operating from a rainy Eastern Front airfield in early 1945.

Bottom photo identified as the 190D9 of IV/JG3 Oberleutnant Oskar "Ossi" Romm's 'scrounged" 190D9 at Prenzlau in March 1945.

Apparently he scrounged enough D9s for a staffel of JG3 by going so far as to recover abandoned D9s at soon to be overrun airfields.

Dan/Slack

Wotan · « **Reply #18 on:** October 11, 2004, 08:09:44 AM »

Yup guppy that looks like it....

Boroda · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2004, 12:57:58 PM »

Ivan Kozhedub mentioned in his book that his 50th victory was a "new Foke-Wulf with a water-cooled engine". It happened in Germany, but I don't remember if he gave an exact date or place. He shot this 190 over his airfield and they caught a pilot, so it really was a Dora.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2004, 02:55:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
the D9 was neither a bomber interceptor nor a "High Alt" fighter.

If that is so, then what about the photo of a D-9 diving away and 6 bombs, dropped by a B-26. (photo taken from the B-26)

Is not the Courland Pocket on the Baltic? IIRC, a famous ace crash landed while flying a D-9 there.

Karnak · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2004, 02:57:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
If that is so, then what about the photo of a D-9 diving away and 6 bombs, dropped by a B-26. (photo taken from the B-26)

Oh please. Just because it attacked an enemy bomber does not mean it was either designed as a bomber-destroyer or even tasked as such on that flight. You know very well that combat is far messier than that.

Furball · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2004, 03:07:25 PM »

the spitfire carried barrels of beer on its wingpoints, therefore it is a beer-transport plane.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2004, 03:10:23 PM »

LOL

Adolf Galland carried Lobsters and Champagne in his Bf109 so its a luxury food delivery plane!!

Furball · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2004, 03:13:47 PM »

the Ju-52 transported Hitler about.... therefore it was a human waste transporter?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #25 on:** October 13, 2004, 03:15:12 PM »

Wotan · « **Reply #26 on:** October 13, 2004, 03:41:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
If that is so, then what about the photo of a D-9 diving away and 6 bombs, dropped by a B-26. (photo taken from the B-26)

Is not the Courland Pocket on the Baltic? IIRC, a famous ace crash landed while flying a D-9 there.

You recall wrong. I have just about every book written on Courland / Kurland. In fact I have complete OOBs and equipment lists for the LW as well as some relatively rare photos.

There were no D9's in Kurland. I designed the AH scenario 'Bridgehead: Kurland' as well. You can be sure if I found D-9's in Kurland I would have added them to the Axis Orbat. All of JG54's D9s were in the west.

This picture doesn’t show a D9 attacking a b-26.

It isn’t really clear if it’s diving or flying under the b26. It could be chasing off an escort fighter, or running to escape one.

I am sure D9s did fire on bombers but they were not "bomb interceptor" nor were they designed as such.

Why do resort to such idiocy? Do you just need attention? Some one to talk to?

MiloMorai · « **Reply #27 on:** October 13, 2004, 04:03:19 PM »

Well Wotan, if you would write more clearly then there would no way for anyone to mis-interept what you are trying to say.

Well I found the ref and it was O. Romm but he was based at Prenzlau.

Speculate on the Dora in the photo all you want but it was still very close to some bombers.

Wotan · « **Reply #28 on:** October 13, 2004, 04:52:37 PM »

Again you play the idiot. Just read the 1st thread. Part of what the guy asked was if D9's were restricted to high alt fighter duty and bomber interception.

You have real issue with "context".

My answer was 100% clear on that point. I said exactly what I meant. The fact that a D9 some where at some time got “near a bomber” or maybe even fired it’s guns at a bomber is irrelevant.

BTW you are the one speculating on the D9 image. It isn't attacking anything. Of course D9s got "near bombers" as the covered 190s whose task was to kill bombers.

See Guppy’s image. There's a D9 carrying a bomb. I have a 5 min film jabo D9's. That doesn’t mean they were designed as "tank busters" and restricted to low alt.

The only one confused is you. Even with the low opinion I already have of you I find it hard to believe you are so dense and am only left assuming that it’s just an act.

That's why I asked if you were just looking for attention or for just some one to chat with.

Here's a pic of "Stuka Girl" and Ju 87 D-5 W.Nr unknown 'T6 + TU' 10.(Pz.)/S.G. 2 as it surrendered at Kitzingen. She was the girlfriend of the pilot.

Does that mean the Stuka was restrcited to ferrying women about? Or was a airborne taxi?

We can get as stupid as you want.

1K3 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 13, 2004, 04:58:35 PM »

In (real) combat...

Was 190D a a stop-gap to La-7 - Yak-3/9 or had hard time as usual against la-yak?