Question about UN

[Ripper29]

Suave..

I think we are arguing the same thing here.  My point was the UN is not an independent organization but made up of representatives of all it's member states.  We really cannot blame the UN for failing when it's member states can't agree on a course of action.

I have worked in a UN environment and have seen the results of ethnic cleansing (what a nice way of saying mass murder), I have seen mass graves and the results of ethnic hatred.  I have also seen rebuilding and resocializing and the results of intervention by the global community.

It's not a perfect solution or organization but I don't see any other way of doing it.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Ripper29
You made reference to Rwanda, the only troops committed to this mission that were non African were Belgian, and as Rwanda was a former French Belgian colony it was felt that the mission commander should be from somewhere else.  

What is a "French Belgian colony" ?

As far as I know Ruanda was a former German colony and after 1914-18 Belgium got a mandate over this area ... it was not properly a colony.

[OIO]

yep. the biggest failure of the UN is that it relies on its members for military forces.

To illustrate the problem... imagine that Italy invaded the Vatican.

The vatican asks the UN for help.

In the UN security council:


USA: Hey that aint cool, doesn't that nice old priest guy live there? vote yes military action

France: We need to put sanctions on italy so they back off. vote NO to military action

Russia: not our problem, vote abstained .

Britain: If the US says yea we say yea. Besides, we like the old fart.

China: not our problem, vote abstained.

UN council result: One vote 'no' vetos the military action even though it 'won' the vote count.

Negotiations begin to have Italy back off. Sanctions are put in place.

A Year goes by. 1 Year in which the italians do whatever they want in the Vatican.

The situation gets real ugly. UN council meets to discuss what to do next:

France: Sanctions are not working. Lets do a resolution against them.

USA: k... but if those dont work we go in.
Britain: *sigh*
China: whatever rocks your boat, not our problem.
Russia: absent during this meeting.

Several years go by with several resolutions passed and gone... Italy is still partying in the streets of the Vatican.

UN council meeting #3:

China: i told you its not my problem, vote abstained.
British: But we havent even decided what to vote on how can you abstain...
China: dont care, dont bother us with this.
British: *sigh*
Russia: The vatican situation is very serious, we should do something about it.
France: yes we should.
USA: *sigh*
British: we could each mobilize some military forces around italy, show them we mean bussiness. Give the chaps a show of force.
Russia: Yes yes you go ahead and do that.
France: I agree
USA: If that doesnt work we go in.
France: *sigh*
British: Ok we're agreed. Let's assign the forces we'll send. Commonwealth troops will deploy to the north of italy
Switzerland: cant take sides sorry, you cant put troops here.
Germany: nein. No foreign troops in our soil.
Austria: we'll allow it if you give us trade benefits in return
British: *sigh*
Russia: Our economy is not in a position to support a military operation, we will happily commit support personel and materiel.
France: Our foreign legion is too far away to deploy to italy
USA: just use your regular armed forces you dont need the foreign legion
France: you want our help or no?
USA: wouldnt hurt
France: then we send the legion. But since its too far away we will only be able to help with air and a few units on le ground.
USA: *sigh*

China: *eats popcorn, chuckles to itself*

Russia: and the americans invade from the south
France: yes yes their 2 armies will land in..
USA: *sigh*
British: *sigh*

A year later Italy is invaded, Vatican liberated. However, certain problems arise from italy being invaded.

UN meeting #4
USA: Things are under control, we have several army divisions on the ground and transition of the italian gov. is going smoothly. The pope sends a thumbs up.
British: What ^ they said.
Italy : ow did you have to gang up on us like that?
Germany: Hey our economy took a big hit thanks to your stupid invasion, we had trade deals with Italy...
France: The americans have made several mistakes that shouldn't have happened....
British: *sigh*
Russia: hey italy if you want we can talk about those rebuilding contracts over dinner...
China: why did you call me to this meeting?
USA: We're doing the best we can France
France: not good enough.
Australia: can we get our troops home now? It was a long trip for the mates.
British: France we're doing the best we can with what we have, nobody couldve done better.
USA: yeah, what ^ said.
France: "We have a plan"
Australia: our boys even took souveneirs on their way to Italy..the foreign legion even sued some of our boys for tavern brawls on their way to the italian front....


and you get the idea.

[Ripper29]

Originally posted by straffo
What is a "French Belgian colony" ?

As far as I know Ruanda was a former German colony and after 1914-18 Belgium got a mandate over this area ... it was not properly a colony.

Sorry I should have made this more clear, I was using my failing memory and should not have said French Belgian, as it was not the French at all….or a colony my mistake and I apoligise for any discomfort it may have caused..


http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/History%20of%20Rwanda

"Rwanda entered into another period in its history as Germany was ousted from its African colonies at the end of  World war I.  The League of Nations mandated Rwanda and its southern neighbor, Burundi, to Belgium as the territory of Ruanda-Urundi. Belgium became the new possessor of Rwanda"

[straffo]

No discomfort nor hard feeling Ripper
It just looked strange

[Ripper29]

Originally posted by straffo
No discomfort nor hard feeling Ripper
It just looked strange

No problem, I was just being lazy when I posted it and was trying to remember my history lessons.  

[J_A_B]

Why would we need to invade Italy to change their government?  Wouldn't it fall apart on its own soon enough anyway?  

NO BLOOD FOR SPAGHETTI!


J_A_B

[Vulcan]

The UN is way passed its use by date.

In our region the only thing the UN did for us in the East Timor conflict is provide some pretty blue berets so our soldiers heads would stick out nicely in the jungle.

[GRUNHERZ]

Here is what I think of "UN force."



The above is a picture taken in a city called Srebrenica in 1995, a city decaled by the UN as "safe haven" during the Bosnian civil war of the 1990s.

The people in the picture are bosnian refugess.

The Bus in the picture is a serbian bus.

Those people were put on the busses, taken to killing fields and killed. Some 8,000 to 10,000 of them.

What you dont see in the picture are the UN soldiers who did squat as the serbs came into this UN "safe haven" and did this.

Well squat is unfair, the UN "soldiers" did manage to fuel up those busses for the serbs - yep they gave them fuel for the death busses.

But thats not all, the UN "forces"  commander of Srebrenica did manage to have a drink with the Serb commander as this genocide was going on..



Anyway that how I feel about UN force.

Thankfully the USA came in after this and cleaned up the situation with airstri kes and by helping train and coordinate a new joint Croatian-Bosnian force in defeating the serb killers which led to the Dayton accords...

I piss on the UN.

That bastard Karremans should be shot.

[Pongo]

Ever hear of the Mendak pocket GH?


"no it is a powerless body built on Idealism of a world peace utopia.

Specifically Iraq.....12 resolutions concerning them and Iraq was still playing cat/mouse games w/ inspecters.

Sadam was a threat to the world (or would have been eventually) and the majority of countrys apposed to actions had secret dealins with him.

Keeping in mind Sadam had over 500 tons of raw uranium...AFTER THE INVASION....that equates, after enrichment, to 142 bombs of medium yei"

lots of great fantasy stuff here.
The inspections worked. The UN worked.
There were no terrorist groups funded by or orginised by Iraq.  
Diplomacy and sanctions worked. 100%
It seems the only way you would recognize that the UN worked is if Iraq was a smoking hole. That was not the declared aim of the sanctions.

[Hawklore]

Originally posted by Scootter
what force does the UN have, pray tell

I have never seen the UN Army

Never heard of the Smurfs?

[straffo]

Some question :
- who created the UN ?
- who created the UN powerless ?

[Staga]

- Which country has used most Vetoes in Security Council ?

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Pongo There were no terrorist groups funded by or orginised by Iraq. [/B]

You forgot about the US$20000 Saddam was giving to Palestinian suicide bombers families.

Short memory huh pongo?

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by GScholz
Your memory seems to be downright faulty. Iraq paid the families of any Palestinian who got killed by the Israelis ... including suicide bombers, but not exclusively. You make it sound like they were paying the terrorists.

Are you sure you were clear on this last statement?  

Did you actually mean to say suicide bombers (who by definition kill themselves) are killed by Israelis?  

If they were paying suicide bombers (who are by definition terrorists) they were paying terrorists.