Author Topic: Stuka Tank Buster for the planeset (Read 3595 times)

tikky · « **Reply #30 on:** October 13, 2004, 06:02:14 PM »

if HTC release '87G, might as well modify the tigger tank perk to just 5:rolleyes:

Urchin · « **Reply #31 on:** October 13, 2004, 06:12:34 PM »

Kweassa.. have you ever used the Hurri-2D?

The 40mm has the penetration to blow through the Panzer IV from any direction but the front. I've already showed how much use that gets.

You know why it doesn't get any use? Because it is hard to use. It is absolutely the case that one hit equals one disabled panzer (you will get either the engine or the turret). It is not the case that one hit equals one kill. Typically, if I'm in the hurricane, I disable all the tanks on the field, and then collect all the assists as other people finish them off.

I'd consider myself to be very good in the Hurri-2D. I usually need about 2 shots to disable a panzer. That is 4 rounds total (2 rounds per shot).

Even if the Ju-87G is introduced as a free plane, nobody is going to use it except people who like the precision of using a large one shot weapon to disable tanks with. And even your "worst case scenario" doesn't apply in my opinion, since as soon as any "ground attack" faces any kind of air resistance, over half of the tanks respawn as flakpansies anyway.

Karnak · « **Reply #32 on:** October 13, 2004, 06:20:59 PM »

Add the Ju87G and the Whirbelwind at the same time.

OOZ662 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:10:11 PM »

Nobody seems to mention the fact (though ya got close a few times) YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO HIT SOMETHIN TO KILL IT!

With 12 rpg that's 12 chances. If you have the skills to hit once in 12 recoiled/slow firing shots, you have the skill to kill a tank in a hurri/IL2.

Tails · « **Reply #34 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:19:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662
Nobody seems to mention the fact (though ya got close a few times) YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO HIT SOMETHIN TO KILL IT!

With 12 rpg that's 12 chances. If you have the skills to hit once in 12 recoiled/slow firing shots, you have the skill to kill a tank in a hurri/IL2.

That's another good point. Not everyone has the skill or mindset to make use of our current panzerknackers. Thats why we got the low-level lanc dweebs using the old shotgun tactic to get the job done.

Will the high velocity 37mm be more effective than the 40mm vickers, or the 23mm cannons on the IL-2? Maybe. Will the vast majority of pilots in this game have the skill to use them, when attached to a Stuka? Not likely.

It took me a month to get to the point to where I can disable a tank with one-shot one-pass in a Hurri-D, and I was -trying- to learn that bird. One more month later, I'm still trying to learn how to shoot planes with the thing.

The Stuka is not going to be the death of the ground war if it's unperked. It'll just be another option for those of us wanting our WWII A-10's.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #35 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:24:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tails

The Stuka is not going to be the death of the ground war if it's unperked. It'll just be another option for those of us wanting our WWII A-10's.

No it wont be tyhe death of the grund war. We allready have 2 cannon planes that can disable PzIV in a split second, a 37mm stuka would just be the third.

However neither of our existing cannon tank killers them are that succesful vs a Tiger I. A properly modeled 37mm Stuka would have that split second kill capability vs a Tiger I and any other reasonable perk tank. That would severly discourge the use of expensive perk tanks.

And thats the problem.

I dont think perking a stuka makes anyt sense but I dont think it should be free either. So I'm not sure we will have one as long as it so eaily able to kill/disable every perk tank..

Tails · « **Reply #36 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:38:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I dont think perking a stuka makes anyt sense but I dont think it should be free either. So I'm not sure we will have one as long as it so eaily able to kill/disable every perk tank..

Easy way to defend a Tigger against that problem...dont use the bloody thing without air support!

Seriously, anything that flies and has a gun, or even osties and M16's, would be a threat to the slow maneuvering, slow flying, quite large Stuka air frame. And anyone who has flown the exsisting Stuka knows that it has the same neon SHOOT ME sign that the 262 comes standard with.

Would you take a 262 into a furball at med/low altitude if you knew or were not certain of the presence of higher fighters (especially the dives-like-a-piano P-47)? No.
Would you take an Arado in to bomb something in the same situation, or without some backup to keep your tail-feathers clean? No.
So why should you go plunk the perks on a Tigger, when you dont have the air support to keep the tank-busters off you?

tikky · « **Reply #37 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:02:31 PM »

simple solution...... just decrease the tiger perk to 5........

Karnak · « **Reply #38 on:** October 13, 2004, 10:59:15 PM »

GRUNHERZ makes a good point about very likely not seeing the Ju87G due to it's effect on perk tanks.

Pyro told me that the Mosquito FB.MK XVIII with the 57mm cannon would not be added due to it's potential to annilate the bombers without the bombers being able to defend against it. This goes to show that the effect of a unit on the gameplay is a consideration for Pyro when he desides what to add and what not to add.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #39 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:17:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tails
Easy way to defend a Tigger against that problem...dont use the bloody thing without air support!

Seriously, anything that flies and has a gun, or even osties and M16's, would be a threat to the slow maneuvering, slow flying, quite large Stuka air frame. And anyone who has flown the exsisting Stuka knows that it has the same neon SHOOT ME sign that the 262 comes standard with.

Would you take a 262 into a furball at med/low altitude if you knew or were not certain of the presence of higher fighters (especially the dives-like-a-piano P-47)? No.
Would you take an Arado in to bomb something in the same situation, or without some backup to keep your tail-feathers clean? No.
So why should you go plunk the perks on a Tigger, when you dont have the air support to keep the tank-busters off you?

Thats not the way the MA works...

Tails · « **Reply #40 on:** October 14, 2004, 12:26:42 AM »

Well, if I cant sell you guys on the Stuka-G, how about the MG/FF cannon pods (2 per pod, four cannon total) for our exsisting Stuka? I know the exact model we have didnt have them officially, but then again, our exact model also did not have provisions for the 1800kg bomb either...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #41 on:** October 14, 2004, 02:24:01 AM »

How about we just the Stuka with 2 MG151/20 and a hangar selerctable choice for the special 20mm AP ammo. (Same for the Fw190 F8)

Purzel · « **Reply #42 on:** October 14, 2004, 02:51:29 AM »

I dont think that the fact that there is an effective weapon against a perk ride means that the weapon shouldnt be introduced.

There are Tempests, that get killed be one hit of the ostie. The ostie is unperked.

Is that a problem?

Yes the Tempest can shoose to stay away from the ground. Just as the tiger can choose to not leave the forest while red planes are around. In both cases the vehicles are ineffective until they decide to take the risk.

The other way around it makes more sense. There should be an effective weapon for everything in the game. Right now there is no gun that can hurt the tiger.

I think there should be a weapon, but since the tiger is very expansive it would be good to have the "tiger-killer" very vulnerable. And with the exception of a C-47 there is nothing more vulnerable than a Stuka.

I'd say add it. Without perks. If it shows that the use of Tigers is really dropping off below bearable levels then maybe perk it. But I dont think it will.

Urchin · « **Reply #43 on:** October 14, 2004, 03:07:31 AM »

That is simply untrue. Hurri-2D, IL-2, Panzer IV.. all have guns that can hurt a Tiger.

Pretty much every USAAF plane can kill a Tiger, albiet with a rocket or bomb, as can the Typhoon, Spit, Niki.. the list goes on and on.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #44 on:** October 14, 2004, 03:13:02 AM »

An ostwind doesnt go hunting a Tempest.

A Tempest has a decent chance of killing an ostie.

A Tiger has no serious chance of killing the Ju87G.

So its a poor argument you brought up.

If Pyro's stement about the mossies and the bombers holds true the same thing logically applies to the Ju87G.

There are guns to kill tigers, several and a new one is coming in the next version.

The problem wityh Ju87 is that you could consostatly kill tigers (and all other perk tanks) in one shot and there is nothing they can do about it.