Author Topic: Picture of Assault Weapon before and after the ban?  (Read 1775 times)

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Picture of Assault Weapon before and after the ban?
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2004, 03:27:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Criminals in high crime areas (you didnt say high gun accident areas) dont murder other people accidentaly because the guns misfire. They do it because they intend to kill or harm the other person. The only thing an NRA gun handling course could teach such criminals is how to shoot better.



Not knowing how to shoot a gun properly IS criminal.  
:D

And dont sell ole Wayne short on what he could teach criminals, I'd bet with enough lobbyists he could sell ice cubes to Eskimos.

Or at least convince them to buy them to make him leave them alone.  :lol

Offline vorticon

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Picture of Assault Weapon before and after the ban?
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2004, 03:39:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
did I read vort correctly?

lazs


yes, on the whole assault rifle thing, your right. now if I were to commit a crime in which i required a gun, id either use a semi auto handgun (not to say those should be banned, there more likely to be used for good rather than evil) or a sub-machine gun (not to say those should be banned either, just given a greater  degree of control on who can buy em), depending on the crime. id only use a real assault rifle in some kind of open revolution.

if i was just out to kill someone, id just poison their wine or dump a bucket of water in front of there steps in the middle of winter.

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2004, 04:31:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
The second amendment was written to insure a malitia, not to insure everyone could own a gun - in fact it doesn't mention a gun. What if we decide guns aren't strong enough? Can we bare tanks?


"The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed"

 I fail to see how it can be made any more clear.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2004, 04:37:57 PM »
pretty much it... we will allways need well armed men to defend against whatever so.... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

and... yes I know how to reload ammo... we do not call it "load shot" unless you are talking about reloading shotgun shells.  

There are no limits on how much components you can have only on how they are stored.   For instance... you can't have more than 20 lbs of smokless powder at a residence without some specialized storage.    20 lbs will load many thousands of rounds of ammo.

lazs

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2004, 04:51:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

MT... you do not agree with my perception of the situation?

lazs


If you are saying that Bush was for it in a way that would make him against it... then yea. I think he is a true flip flopper on this one.

Either that or a liar.

Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2004, 04:53:00 PM »
Well if it said that, there would be some less ambiguity. But it doesn't, it states

"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

So, were they protecting your right to own a six shooter, or protecting your right to have a state militia, and your state 's autonomy? No mention of guns, knives, shoes or even tanks. But it does mention the importance of having a *WELL REGULATED MILITIA*  for the *SECURITY OF A FREE  STATE*  Gun regulation in the 2nd ammendment?? Who'd have thunk it.

It ceartainly appears this has more to do with a state army.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2004, 04:55:43 PM by TweetyBird »

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2004, 04:59:57 PM »
The militia of the time was made up of everyday people.
Many of whom never signed up to be in the army.

As often or not when the need arose they simply went into their house. Got ol Betsy off the mantle and went off to fight.
when the fight was over they went back home again
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2004, 05:01:27 PM »
If the right to own a gun is so obvious in the Constitution... Why has there never been an overturned gun control law based on 2nd amendment grounds?

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2004, 05:02:09 PM »
Would someone please explain the Assault weapon ban.
What it covered, what it didnt and the misconceptions thereof?

I need this info to make a point with someone IRL and I saw here someone explain it better then I can.

BTW I need it in the next 3 hours LOL
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Offline mauser

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« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2004, 06:04:53 PM »
Drediock,

Wording of the Assault Weapons ban from the law itself, from the 103rd Congress:

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa...aw/h3355_en.htm

Go to "TITLE XI--FIREARMS SUBTITLE A--ASSAULT WEAPONS"

Under "DEFINITION OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON"
`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--
`(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the
firearms in any caliber, known as--
`(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
`(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and
Galil;
`(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
`(iv) Colt AR-15;
`(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
`(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
`(vii) Steyr AUG;
`(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
`(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar
to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
`(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a
detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath
the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a bayonet mount;
`(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to
accommodate a flash suppressor; and
`(v) a grenade launcher;
`(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a
detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
`(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol
outside of the pistol grip;
`(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel
extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
`(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or
completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the
shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand
without being burned;
`(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the
pistol is unloaded; and
`(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and
`(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath
the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
`(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.'.


Notice it says "semi-auto."  I remember hearing about a news story where they spoke about the AWB but showed a fully automatic (or "select fire") AK-47 - definitely misleading.  Also, none of these provisions cover the M1 Garand, M1A (semi-auto only M14), Browning BAR (not the WWII LMG), Mini-14, and other weapons which are all semi-auto weapons firing .30-06, 7.62x51mm, and 5.56x45mm cartridges.  It's just that they all look like hunting rifles - wood or synthetic stocks with no pistol grip in their stock form.  So basically there are weapons that fire the same rounds that are perfectly legal even in California just because they don't look as mean.  

A truer definition of "assault weapon" can be found at Tony Williams' site.  Something along the lines of a weapon that fires an intermediate-sized cartridge, and is select fire.    For the laws that control fully-automatic weapons, look for the 1934 NFA, and the import and new manufacture laws enacted in 1986 and 1989 from off the top of my head.  Basically, you need to make sure your state allows you to have a fully-automatic weapon, then pay the tax stamp to satisfy the BATF.  Then you will end up paying about $10k at least for a previously owned weapon because there are no brand new fully automatic weapons manufactured for civilian use after either 86 or 89.  

Hope this helps you (I'll be checking my automatic weapon laws in the meantime).  

mauser

*edit - Ok, here's a good summary of the laws controlling automatic weapons:  
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68847&highlight=NFA+import+ban+1986+1989

1986- No sale of new manufacture full automatics for civilians.
1989- No further imports of foreign made "assault weapons."
« Last Edit: October 14, 2004, 06:15:56 PM by mauser »

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2004, 06:05:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Would someone please explain the Assault weapon ban.
What it covered, what it didnt and the misconceptions thereof?

I need this info to make a point with someone IRL and I saw here someone explain it better then I can.

BTW I need it in the next 3 hours LOL


Here ya go, this should answer your questions..........

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/assault%20weapons%20ban%20%28USA%29

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2004, 06:10:42 PM »
tweety... the militia was defined as any able bodied man.   the security of the state could mean anything that threatens the state be it tyranny or criminal.   Because of this the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The liberals gun grabbers have picked away at this saying that they were not taking away individuals right to keep and bear arms just that they wanted to ban certain types as being too dangerous.

MT is relatively correct that no gun regulation has been overturned based on second amendment rights but... conversly...  no ban has been successful based on the 2nd not being an individual right.    No ban has ever said that individuals do not have the right to bear arms.... just not here or not that kind of arm type of thing.

The second is generaly interpreted by scholars and common sense as meaning that if you want to ever have the ability to form a civilian army to combat tyranny or criminals then the the people need to be armed... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

someday both the gun grabers and the pro gun rights guys are gonna force the issue... both sides are afraid too until they are sure to have the upper hand in the supreme court or the right case comes along.

lazs

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2004, 06:21:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Here ya go, this should answer your questions..........

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/assault%20weapons%20ban%20%28USA%29


thanks but all I got was

"HTTP 403.6 - Forbidden: IP address rejected
Crawling of this site is prohibited. Your access was blocked for up to 8 hours.

Please note that sometimes the problem is created by someone from the same network or ISP and your actions may have nothing to do with this message. We are very sorry if this is the case but we have to protect our site from bad people. Please come back soon.

farlex.com "
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Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2004, 06:25:13 PM »
>>the militia was defined as any able bodied man.<<

What is a "WELL REGULATED" militia defined as? Because thats what the ammendment states - a militia subject to *regulations* and it should be "well regulated' which implies someone must do the regulating - who?

Offline mauser

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« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2004, 06:30:31 PM »
DREDIOCK, did you see my response?  

Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
thanks but all I got was

"HTTP 403.6 - Forbidden: IP address rejected
Crawling of this site is prohibited. Your access was blocked for up to 8 hours.

Please note that sometimes the problem is created by someone from the same network or ISP and your actions may have nothing to do with this message. We are very sorry if this is the case but we have to protect our site from bad people. Please come back soon.

farlex.com "


Tweety:  Militia as defined by the US CODE:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000311----000-.html

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes

 
Release date: 2004-03-18

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Also, see http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html for a read on interpreting the Second Amendment.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2004, 06:38:19 PM by mauser »