Author Topic: Level Bombing Realism (Read 1271 times)

Midnight · « **on:** October 21, 2004, 09:47:56 AM »

I thought I read somewhere that HTC said he would disable level bombers (like B-17) from being able to drop bombs in a dive *IF* it was prooved that this was not possible from a real bomber.

Not having access to a real B17 with 500lb bombs to try this out, why shouldn't we be able to use physics to determine what was possible?

I would venture a guess that the bombs in the low part of the bay might be able to drop out in a dive, but the ones in the upper part of the bay would either get jammed up in the rails, or actually crash into the sidewalls of the bay, as most "Dive bombing" bombers are dropping at zero Gs.

Futher, I think we are missing a bomb collision model for in-air collisions between aircraft and bombs. Perhaps if we had a collison model for this, we would see dive boming of level bombers decrease, as the possibilty of bomb collisions in the bomb bay would make it more difficult.

Mak333 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2004, 02:21:51 PM »

Modify the model so that bomber's wings can fly right off if going over a certain speed. Buff's didnt automatically pull up if they were into a steep dive...

Furious · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2004, 02:36:06 PM »

We have this whole calibration routine, so why not disallow the dropping of ordinance if the calibration is off by XX%. Just alert the pilot that callibration is off with the orange text and require a new calibration before arming the ordinance.

The above plus the requirement to drop from the F6 view should see the end of the dive bombing heavies, I would think, but not restrict them with reguards to high vs. low alt attacks.

I still think that bombers below 5k should not get any drones, but a new bomber drone will form up with you for each 5k you climb, though.

Mak333 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2004, 03:03:48 PM »

Furious, that doesn't make sense at all...lol

You receieve a B17 that just appears on your screen once you pass 5k? no. All you gotta do is perk the extra formation bombers and you wont see many formations anymore...

Furious · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2004, 03:24:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mak333
...You receieve a B17 that just appears on your screen once you pass 5k?...

...and them just exploding when they fall out of formation is what?

A drone popping into existance 3k out and forming up with you would not be anymore cheezey than some other things we already have.

Like a million PT's popping out of nowhere after a fleet is sunk, or GV's popping into existance 15 miles away from their base.

B17Skull12 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2004, 06:23:36 PM »

better idea. how about not leting bombs drop is the nose is +/-15 degrees?

Mak333 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2004, 06:48:46 PM »

But Furious, what if you didn't want another drone past 5k? The fact that the pilot has no control over his own aircraft just seems odd. I do see your point about drone's blowing up but them just appearing once you pass a certain alt cannot be compared to that...

Scaevola · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2004, 06:52:47 PM »

Quote

I thought I read somewhere that HTC said he would disable level bombers (like B-17) from being able to drop bombs in a dive *IF* it was prooved that this was not possible from a real bomber.

It probably was possible to dive bomb in almost any type of aircraft, whether you had the ability to pull out of the dive was another matter all together. If B17 pilots had fly by wire or a MS sidewinder control system then you would have seen them trying to dog fight ME262's. I've never flown a heavy bomber myself but I'm assuming that it would take a donkey to pull one out of of a dive like you see in AH.

I have never seen any footage of a formation of heavy bomber using dive bomb tactics, if anyone knows where any is it would be interesting to watch.

I would rather HT use his time to code new planes/maps/effects etc.., rather than run around trying to plug "loopholes" in the game play that some player - who can't play the game in the spirit of things- will exploit, if it isn't dive bombing B17's it'll be wrangling free tea and biccies in the o' club.

I'ts a case of looking at why you play here, is it for the challenge, or just to play the easy option and try and find loopholes, because deep down we all know that heavy bombers weren't really used in this fashion... well maybe not that much but I need to see to believe.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2004, 09:22:54 PM »

There is still fighters in the game that are capable of shooting down bombers aren`t there?

LePaul · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2004, 01:18:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
There is still fighters in the game that are capable of shooting down bombers aren`t there?

That, my friend, requires *effort*. Its vastly easier to rant here and demand such things not be allowed.

At this point, bombers should be thankful the engines start

Scaevola · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2004, 02:31:11 AM »

I don't know about anyone else but I don't usually carry a spare fighter around in the boot of my panzer.

As to "effort" well ask yourself this, what takes more?, being accurate with one 1000lb bomb in an attack plane or just dropping 14 of them.

Kweassa · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2004, 04:28:49 AM »

The immediate solution would be to to make the bombs drop only from the Bombardier's position.

Problem fixed!

ps) The bombers need a target. Small scale tactical targets such as airfields, is definately not a suitable target. Same thing with towns. In the MA where things revolve around territorial capture that depends on field suppression, the bombers have no place in the game.

But what about the strat objects? Such as refineries and etc? Its pretty much worthless, as the procedures required to actually effect the game in a wide scale are much too compliated, and unrealistic a goal.

If we want to see buffs in the game, the high flying, massive formations of buffs as they should be, we need a new strat system. An attritional, wide-scale system, that effects the game wholely. An attritional system powerful enough to effect the game for days.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2004, 07:47:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Scaevola
I don't know about anyone else but I don't usually carry a spare fighter around in the boot of my panzer.

You will find the fighters located in the hangar section on your clipboard.

Seagoon · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2004, 11:48:06 AM »

Oy vey, there was a reason that aircraft designers mounted the ordinance of dive bombers on the exterior of the aircraft. And it wasn't because they'd sat down and said "How can we add the most drag to this aircraft, as its still 20 MPH too darn fast? I dunno chief, howzabout we take out the bomb bay and put them heavy things on the outside of the airframe!"

Several dive bombers, such as the JU 87 and SBD actually had devices to extend the bomb beyond the radius of the prop, because bombs dropped in a near vertical drive would have fallen through the prop rather than executing the nifty magical right angle bombs dropped from our level bombers do!

Just try the following at home. Take a styrofoam coffee cup, make a little "bomb bay" by cutting a square opening in the side. Pretend the closed end is the nose of the bomber. Hold a penny inside the cup over the bomb bay opening. Now point the "nose" straight down and let go of the penny. Whoops! The penny hit the inside of the nose didn't it? So would your bombs. You'll find the "bomb" hits part of the "aircraft" at most angles over 45 degrees.

- SEAGOON

Mak333 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2004, 12:08:22 PM »

Nice analogy lol. I tried it out myself.

I agree with Seagoon. Some bombers were called "dive bombers". B17's and Lancs were not one of these yet we still see them dive with steep angles. For those planes, lets disable the release of bombs from any other position than the bombardier's. I still think perking the formation for b17's, b26's lancs, and others is a good idea.