putting steel on target

[SKurj]

Try firing with as little Gee as possible.  Aim in front, lettim fly into stream..

(i suck too)


AKSKurj

[hblair]

 

Originally posted by ygsmilo:
Turn off your tracers, it makes you focus more on where you are aiming instead of watching your shot.

Very good advice in my opinion. I turned my tracers off the night the option became available. Once you get used to it, no tracers are a real plus.

[-ammo-]

I tell all the gusy I help with gunnery in the TA the same as ygsmilo just said. I turned off my tracers months ago and it has helped me alot. I look at tracers as sort of a "crutch", at least it was that way for me. And I didnt see results immediately either. It took a couple of weeks. In the end I fire on instinct rather than concentrating on liniong up. It seems the harder i tried to line up the harder it was for me to hit anything.

Turn off the tracers for 7 days of flying and ssee what will happen.

Hope it helps you-- ammo

[Lephturn]

Interesting ammo.  I'll have to try that out and see how it goes.  Lord knows it couldn't get much worse for me.

BTW, one other thing.  Do you zoom in to fire?  I find the change in perspective completely hoses my gunnery, especially in deflection shooting.  I'll zoom to watch the target, but then go back to regular view to shoot him.  It's a small thing but it makes a big difference for me.  I've missed the easiest shots lately because I tried to shoot while zoomed and totally mis-judged the lead.

BTW, what are you guys using for convergence settings in the .50 cal planes like the Jug?  I have been using 350/375/400/425 going from outer to inner (so they cross) but I'm not sure that's best.  I get lots of hits but also get lots of assists.  I'm thinking of going with them all together at 350.

Saw, here is something that might help.  Film some of you passes and post them.  We may be able to spot something you are doing that is hurting your gunnery.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[Andy Bush]

Saintaw

You can't shoot very well?!! Don't worry...neither could most other WW2 fighter pilots. A2A gunnery is the single most difficult skill a fighter pilot has to learn.

I can't do this in '25 words or less'! Here are the basics!

You have three problems to solve: (1) You must be in range. (2) You must be 'in plane'. (3) You must have the correct lead.

In AH, these things are not easy to recognize. You can use the range icon to help figure out firing range, but I have found that trying to read an icon while I am also trying to solve the other two variables is tough to do. One solution...use target relative size as a cue. Most AH a/c have about the same dimensions. You can pick a gunsight design that is intended to be used as a size measuring device...one's with circles are good. Use the TA to practice trailing one of the drones at your chosen convergence range while you film. Then go back and stop the film when you have the range right. Compare the size of the target to the sight dimensions. Memorize that relationship!

Next, the 'in plane' problem. Here I am talking about getting the bullet stream into the plane of motion of the target at firing range. Because of gravity drop, this is usually not the same as you being in the target's plane of motion. When in a turn, you must hold the center gunsight reference...usually called the 'pipper', ie, the 'dot'...above the target's flight path. See this figure:

   

Finally, you have to solve the lead problem...and this is the toughest part of the gunnery issue. The lead angle is going to primarily vary with angle off and range.

Try to keep angle off to a minimum. BFM yourself into a six o'clock position with a small amount of closure. Don't even think about firing until you have 'camped' yourself at the target's six. In doing so, you will be in a minimal angle off position.

   

One trick I use is to maneuver into the general six position without using the gunsight in my visual scan. Ignore the sight and just fly to the target's six. Then, once you are in position, bring the sight into your scan and move it into position.

And what exactly is that position?

Use back stick to move the pipper forward. Bank gently into the target to move the pipper 'up' relative to the target's flight path. Note the overall size of the target. Put the pipper above the target's flight path by an amount equal to about half of that overall size. This is only an approximation, but it will get you started in the right position. In doing this, you have added a small gravity drop correction.

Now, let's fine tune the lead angle. Use back pressure to move the pipper forward. Use the same overall target size picture. Move the pipper until it is about two of these 'size pictures' ahead of the target. NOTE: This lead value is the most critical part of the lead angle problem. There is no one answer. The technique I'm describing is good for low angle off situations. As angle off increases, so does the amount of lead required. For angles off exceeding about 45 degrees, you will probably lose sight of the target below your nose when you try to pull lead.

   

Lastly...you must stabilize prior to firing. Don't just pull the pipper into position and fire. Use the idea of 'track - shoot- track'. Fly the pipper into position, then stabilize. Then hold the pipper steady and fire a good burst...one second at least. Then release the trigger and continue to track your firing picture. This 'track - shoot - track' idea will help you with pipper control.

All of this is explained and illustrated in detail in my A2A gunnery articles in the Air Combat Corner at www.simhq.com

Good luck.

Andy  

[This message has been edited by Andy Bush (edited 12-03-2000).]

[Saintaw]

WOW ! This one is going to my Bookmarks !

Lepht : No, I don't use zoom for firing.

Ammo, Hb : Yup , will try tracers off.

Flak : using your sight, looks clear indeed (very nice for the 109's!)


Andy: I think the point where I have a problem Is I have a hard time calculating the TOF of the bullets when I am aiming. I kinda aim "where he's going to be", BUT since I can't yet manage to get in my brain the TIME it will take to the bullits to get there.
   Other than that, I think I'll read your post, go try it , come back and re-read it untill it all enters  

Will try my best to shoot you all up there  

Thank you all !

Saw


[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 12-02-2000).]

[Andy Bush]

Saintaw

OK! Let's talk TOF then. TOF is a range issue. Minimize your problem by minimizing range. This was the key to success in WW2, and the same is true in AH. Personally, I think anything outside 250-300yds is wasted effort for the average shooter.

First of all, pick a plane and get used to it and its weapons.

Then get a gunsight that helps simplify the gunnery problem. I suggest Mino's sight. Here it is.

 

This is a jpg image. Convert it to bmp to use it in AH. If necessary, do a forum search to find Mino's post.

Mino's sight is intended for both A2A and A2G use. Here are some tips for using it A2A.

If you can modify the bmp file, try this:

 

This modified sight does several things for you. The pipper is an exact aiming point. The two vertical lines represent the flight path boundaries of the target. The line below the pipper represents bullet stream and firing reference points. The small 'boxes' on this line represent a shorter range/low angle off situation and a longer range/higher angle off situation.

Use this sight this way. Follow the techniques in my earlier post. BFM the target until it is in your HUD and centered at the top. Increase back pressure to move the target down toward the two vertical lines. If in a turn, fly the target towards the vertical line closest to the horizon.

With the target flight path now aligned with the two vertical lines (or close to it...this will vary with G and bank angle), continue to pull back stick to move the target down to one of the two range/angle off boxes, depending on your setup.

Stabilize and fire.

Film your passes and post them here for analysis.

Andy

[214thCavalier]

Saw i tried looking to see your hit rates and what planes you fly but guess your using the free player option currently so that did not help.
Personally i reckon most of the above posts although trying to be very helpful are barking up the wrong tree.
I tend to agree with Eskimo as to the 3 main possible causes and cure for your problem.
Sure all these sights are real fine and especially Mino's looks like it could help, but i tend to use a basic minimal sight with edge markers and just a small dot in the centre. I want to see my target not a screen full of sight lines.
What most seem to have missed in your post was the fact you could not hit a straight flying target at 250 -300 yds.
No sight on the planet will help with this.
I like Eskimo suggest you cal your stick and spend some time experimenting with dead bands and sensitivity sliders.
Be methodical about it though, start by copying the stick.cfg file in your Aces High settings folder and putting it somewhere safe then go experiment.
Every time you think you have made an improvement save it as your copy of stick.cfg.
This way when you get it all Fubared you can easily go back to the last best version cos believe me if you try to do it from memory it never feels the same.
Experiment in the Offline mode tracking from the 6 position to judge how good your control is around the neutral stick position and doing slashing attacks to practice snap shots.
I think it would be nice to have the option of different stick save files for the different aircraft cos whats right for one is wrong for another.
If you check my stats from previous tours its easy to see where i eventually found some settings that suited me.
I could post my stick.cfg file for you to try but think its probably very dependant on make of stick etc and your own feel.
Maybe Eskimo and I dont know what we are talking about ? check our stats and you might think we may just have a valid point.
I have been in the position of not hitting a level and steady aircraft when i joined AH so i know where your coming from.
There are other things you can do as well like "how" you trim your aircraft for combat and depending on the aircraft you fly how you approach and line it up.
To date my peak hit rate has been 15.28% but currently around 11% due to some serious base strafing, which of course does not count even if you hit the target, and therefore drops your hit rate considerably.
In short it sounds like you have at least a partial control problem aligning the target rather than a problem interpreting the data correctly.

[54Ed]

Just went thru the same thing when I moved from FA to AH, and I worked it out pretty quick.  At least I think so from my hit stat, which is now in the top 50.  A few bits of advice which helped me in AH when I finally remembered them:

1)  Get close.  Wait til the enemy fills your windscreen.  Brit pilots in WWII were told to "stick your nose in his cockpit."  Consider 100 best, 200 good, 300 ok, 400 too far.  

2)  Surprise.  Get in his blind spot.  Planes that don't know you are shooting are usually much easier to hit.  

3)  Fire in short bursts.  If you didn't hit with the initial rounds, it's very unlikely you will walk the stream onto target.

4)  Consistency.  Pick one plane, and stick with it.  Pick one convergence setting, and stick with it.  I fly the spit and use 300 convergence.

5)  Look for easy targets.  Shoot at planes on the deck with low E, and planes hanging because they went vert with too little speed.  

6)  Fly your way onto his tail.  Snapshots are damn hard.  I quit trying to make high-angle shots, and try to fly for a low-angle shot now.  

[Saintaw]

Andy, I had that very sight, but it looks like Torquila fits me best for the moment. I'm now spending a lot of time in the P47 D25 (Lots of ammo, clear View, it's a "Radial", and we all know that only "real men..."   ). I still spend a lot of my time as bait for my Squaddies, but have improved somehow since this thread... (I also avoid furballs & deacking lately...   ). Taking tracers off seems to help too as well as Stabisizing. (Although, it now takes me more time to se up, thus..get killed, when in "tunnelvision").

Cav, I do have a prob with My rudder (It's  a physicaly not well centered CH pro pedal  analog set). I don't have any spiking (or a little, that I could get out with Deadband). I am using settings similar to the ones LEPHTURN posted here a while ago(since I think we fly the same bird...). Also, you might want to check this last tour under "MASS" (my new callsign *sigh*). I mostly fly the P47's or the 109G-6/10. I loooove the way the 109 handles, but I just can't see a thing out of this cockpit  

Cheers,

Saw

PS: I'll go to TA tomorrow & do a couple of small films if I find a victim  
 

[Lephturn]

Heya Saw.

I've just created a new gunsight for the Jug that I really like.  It seems to work equally well in other planes as well.  Check it out:
 

For instructions and download hit my web page at  http://users.eastlink.ca/~sconrad/ .  Basically as you can see the aiming point is above center.  You will have to adjust your head position carefully to make this work right, but I really like it.  It gives me maximum view over the nose for those tough deflection shots.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 12-03-2000).]

[-towd_]

andy you are just plain bad assed . and i dont say things like that alot

[Andy Bush]

Lephturn

Good idea! I tried it out and I think I'll stay with it! I did change the sight look, however...I went with the standard USAF circle (reticle) with a pipper in it...too many years of looking thru that type for me to change now!

I'm not sure that any look angle over the prop is gained...but there is a definite increase in lookdown angles that are slightly either side of the nose...and in higher G situations, this can be a big plus.

-towd-

LOL!! Thanks!

Andy

[Andy Bush]

An idea came to mind! Here's an example of reticle ranging...the basic idea is to size your gunsight display such that its size represents target size at a given range.

I chose 300yds just for the heck of it.

Then I made myself a gunsight...a two reticle sight similar to what we had in the F-4. I wanted the inside reticle to be the size of a typical target's wingspan at a range of 300yds. The inside reticle is half the size of the outside reticle, therefore the outside reticle represents a range of 150yds.

 

 

Notice that I only use half circles. Why? Because the upper half is always 'above' the target and therefore of no use. And this de-clutters the HUD area which I find to be good.

You can easily calibrate the reticle size by using the in/out zoom keys to shrink or expand the sight size. Just get behind your reference target at your desired range. Zoom in for larger detail. Then use the In/Out keys to make the reticle match the target's wingspan...then use F10 to save that setting!

Now that you have this reticle reference, you no longer need the icons!

Andy

[eskimo]

Saintaw said;
"Nonono, what I meant was that I can't even hit a straight flying target flying 250yds away  LOL !"

Saintaw, is this true?
Does a straight and level target bob up and down in your gunsight?  Are you constantly moving your stick to try to get your pipper on him, but over-correcting?

eskimo