Author Topic: putting steel on target  (Read 5327 times)

Offline 54Ed

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putting steel on target
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2000, 08:01:00 PM »
Oh yeah, I fogot one, thanks for reminding me:

7)  Don't touch your rudder when you shoot.  The yaw oscillations will throw you off.  Use bank and pitch to aim.  

Offline skernsk

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putting steel on target
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2000, 09:50:00 PM »
Andy, can you e-mail me a copy of that gunsight??

skernsk@connect.ab.ca

Thanks

Offline Wotan

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putting steel on target
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2000, 10:14:00 PM »
Andy bush
could you email me that gunsite as well
b1488@hotmail.com

thnx
 

Offline hblair

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putting steel on target
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2000, 11:56:00 PM »
Stationary targets are always fun tracers off.  

 

Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2000, 12:49:00 AM »
Yup Eskimo, but it's more like I am going up & down and have to correct to get the tgt stabilsided in sight. I realise I was kinda cheap on Ammo (1/2 secon bursts... I now use 2 seconds bursts... works better).

Saw
 
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Offline Lephturn

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« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2000, 07:24:00 AM »
Saw,

One thing that can really mess up your gunnery is trim.  Having a plane that is far out of trim will result in the problem you are having.  There are a few ways to solve this in AH.  One way is to manually trim the plane as you roll on to the target so that you are perfectly in trim.  This is very difficult to do, especially if you don't have a fancy stick and throttle setup with tons of extra hat switches.  What I do is to try and figure out what speed I will be shooting at, and auto-trim the plane for level flight at that speed before I enter the fight.  Of couse you need to turn combat trim off at this point or you will defeat the purpose of auto trimming at a certain speed.  Combat trim is the simplest solution, but not the most exact.  If you have combat trim turned on, it will allow you to be "pretty close" on the trim when shooting and should prevent most of the problems.

If you are still having problems you will need to do two things.  First, play with your stick scaling and try to smooth your stick input in that part of your range.  Pay attention to which shots you miss, the ones with a lot of back stick, or the ones around center point.  Then try adjusting your stick scaling at that travel range and see if it helps.  The second thing is to be patient!  Do not try to pull lead too early.  If you do, you just end up whipsawing back and forth as you pull lead and fall back repeatedly.  You want to stay in lag pursuit until you are pretty sure you can hold lead for a couple of seconds solid, and then slowly and smoothly ease into lead and shoot.  I try to start firing a bit before the bullets should contact and slowly pull through proper lead angle to rake the target with a good 1 second burst.  The trick is to be patient enough to stay in lag pursuit and not try to pull lead too early.  There is a fine line when flying a plane like the jug, you need to be patient, but not wait too long.    It takes a while to find that perfect spot where you have the E to get a nice solid tracking shot against a better turning plane.  If you wait too long, you generally lose your advantage.  Try to maneuver for a shot early in the fight, but don't rush the shot itself.  A couple of extra seconds to make a smooth shot will do wonders.  

Give this stuff a try, and let me know what worked and what didn't.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 12-04-2000).]

Offline Minotaur

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« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2000, 08:07:00 AM »
SAW;

Check out some of Hangtime's threads on gunnery.  They would be a couple of months old now.  He questioned bullet dispersion.

Hangtime initially questioned it, then a lot of others realized that basically under G load your bullet dispersion is much greater comparing version 104 to 103.  If you are under very light G's your dispersion is tight, but at about 2.5 G's the dispersion really tends to spread out.  Getting worse with more G's.

This has something to do with bullet trajectory and cones of fire.  Meaning each sequential bullet does not follow the same exact flight path.  Picture a cone shape formed outward from each gun where most of the bullets would strike nearest the center of the far end of of the cone.

Some how version 104 changed the weighted average of where bullets would strike.  It gets really noticeable under G load.  Pyro mentioned that this weighted average variable will be modified in version 105 and hopefully help us bad shots out a bit.

Good Luck!  

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"Best is the trash talk. Severly and viciously going after your enemies, their mothers, and their shabby sheep."
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eskimo

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putting steel on target
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2000, 08:42:00 AM »
Saintaw;
Like I stated in the first 1/3 of this post;
Based on what you have described, your problem is most likely either your ACs trim or your joystick.

Lephturn just covered trim pretty well.  If your AC is way out of trim, you can blow the easiest shots because you are constantly fighting your plane.  IE. Your plane is trimmed for 160 and you are going 300.  To shoot level at this speed you must push the stick forward quite a bit just to keep her level because it wants to climb like mad.  

Definitely look at your joystick setup, however.
Joystick setup:

Fly behind the offline drones.  With your plane trimmed to the speed of the drones, + maybe a little more up trim for the gentle turn, try to keep your pipper on one of them.  Don't shoot, just try to track them.  If you can't, it's not an indication that YOU suck, it's an indication that YOUR JOYSTICK or it's setup sucks.  

#1. Make sure that your joystick has been calibrated in windows.

#2. In AH, click on SETUP, JOY STICK and then CALIBRATE.  Follow the instructions.

#3. Now look at the little graph.  Adjust the deadband and dampening sliders for your roll.  Note the colors in the graph, white=roll, red=pitch, green=rudder, teal=throttle.  
Hit Apply after each adjustment.  Try to get each slider as low as possible without seeing white spikes on the graph.  Take your time on this.

#4. Click on pitch and repeat the process.  If you can't get the white and red lines on the graph to go steady without moving the sliders beyond 15 to 20%, swear at your  %$#@& joystick and go buy a new one (Or clean the pots, or send it back.).  You will never be able to hit a thing with a joystick that spikes badly, or that had an induced giant dead spot in the middle.  In fact, you may do better hitting a turning target than a level one with a crappy stick.

#5. Adjust your throttle and rudder settings in the same way, if you have them.  (If you don't have rudders, GET THEM!  I can't shoot worth beans without rudders.  I am sure that my hit % would drop by well over ½ if I didn't have rudders.)

#6. I also recommend moving the 0-90% sliders for the pitch setting so that your stick is less sensitive toward the 0% (middle).  Make the diagonal red line in the bottom graph curve up.  This will allow you to make finer pitch adjustments when you are dead on a guys six.

eskimo

Offline BaneX

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putting steel on target
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2000, 08:55:00 AM »
Lephturn

In answer to your question earlier in the thread about convergence settings for .50 cal guns. I myself put all guns to 300yds.
It seems to be a good range for me since my hit% is usually 8% or higher.

I should try 250yds and see what happens there.

Bane
13th TAS

Offline Lephturn

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putting steel on target
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2000, 10:57:00 AM »
Thanks Bane.  

I've been trying 375 for all, but I'm thinking of going in closer.  I'm not a good gunner, so I usually run around 5%.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline Dingy

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putting steel on target
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2000, 11:58:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Lephturn:
BTW, what are you guys using for convergence settings in the .50 cal planes like the Jug?  I have been using 350/375/400/425 going from outer to inner (so they cross) but I'm not sure that's best.  I get lots of hits but also get lots of assists.  I'm thinking of going with them all together at 350.

In the 51, I've just changed all my convergence to 325.  If I just consider my A2A gunnery % I am probably around 9%.  Unfortunately, my newest passion is deacking a field with a Chog or Stang and thus my % has gone down considerably (about 6.7%).  Deacking a field is a GREAT way to improve your gunnery since the target isnt moving but you have to correct and refine your aim quickly, shoot and then evade.

-DIng



[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 12-04-2000).]

Offline bloom25

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putting steel on target
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2000, 12:51:00 PM »
I too started the Jabo addiction, and found it helped my gunnery.  (Unfortunately the way the score system is now my % shows as much lower than it really is.)

I'd say the keys to good gunnery are to get close (<300 yds), be fast, use no rudder, get in plane with the target, and fire short bursts.  Another trick that works quite well for any plane with multiple gun pairs is to stagger the convergences.  Make the outside pair converge at 400 yds, middle at 350, inside at 300.  ( I find that outside pair at longer range is better than the other way around.)  The benefit to this is that if you BnZ a target at high speed and open fire at 400 yds, you will have at least 2 of your guns passing perfectly through your pipper.  (At 1g of course.)  Even for deflection shooting the hit percentage is slightly higher as your bullets pass through a larger area.



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Offline Lephturn

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« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2000, 12:56:00 PM »
Bloom,

The problem I had with that setup is that I was becoming "assist boy".  I'd hit with a gun or two, but miss with others, and even if I did hit the hits were spread out all over the plane.  I hate that.    I think I like this better, and it makes it easier to aim the bullet stream using tracers when they all converge at the same point.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Luke Skywalker

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putting steel on target
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2000, 01:56:00 PM »
Ok, here is my contribution  

   

I did this one as a mix of Flakbait and Lephturn sights. I liked the sight of Flakbait because it showed the distribution of fire I can expect, and I liked the Lephturn's sight because it indeed enhanced my deflection shooting visibility (that it has improved my gunnery or not...thats a different matter,I am a lousy shot.   )

So, I mixed both concepts,changed color, and added a couple of lines. This sight works just great in Fw190A5 and A8. I guess it will work just as great in any other plane except 109s (cramped cockpit makes impossible to reach the head elevation needed to center the dot).

I chose the red color because:

A)it shines over any terrain possible

B)as the sight needs the head in a high position ,the reflection sight makes the sight "fade". with this comparatively "strong" color, the fade away is lessened.

then ,and by last, I added two diagonal reference lines. I noted they enhanced a bit measuring the angle of deflection.

I hope you like it   And ty lephturn for telling me how to edit those things!!!  

[This message has been edited by Luke Skywalker (edited 12-04-2000).]

Offline gospel

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putting steel on target
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2000, 02:35:00 PM »
I am suprised that no one has mentioned the effects that internet connection quality and net lag can have on gunnery.

In aces high and brand "W" I have gone through periods where I just can't seem to hit anything.

I used to think that I was in a slump if you will, but I think it may have more to do with net lag and quality of connection.

With a marginal connection, dead 6 shots seem to be the least likely to be effected.

If I get too close to a con, they are likely to warp (though it is probably my connection that is bad), so I try to shoot from farther out.  Another advantage from shooting from farther out is most guys try to time their defensive moves to when they think you are going to shoot, and don't expect you to shoot so soon.  

I primarily fly planes with 50 cal's   and have noticed that they are pretty effective at 500yds or so  

gospel
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