Ki-84 Thoughts

[JB82]

Originally posted by peregrin
Hmm,
Faster than a p51.
More maneuverable than a spit9
More firepower than an f4u-1c

That would make it what, 150 perks?

You forgot"Sneakier then the Stealth Fighter".

Why is everyone looking for a wonder plane?  I just don't get it.  

The MA should only have one type of plane and they have to be at same alt & speed for the guns to work.

[SlapShot]

Why is everyone looking for a wonder plane? I just don't get it.

Cause some want to get in a ride that performs both like the P-51 and La-7 without having to withstand the "DWEEB" label.

Some people need to step outside and take a very deep breath ... and then get laid ... geeeesh.

[Karnak]

Peregrin,

Some people have posted quotes about it being faster.  I think it's silly personally.  I haven't seen anybody ask for it to be faster than the P-51D.  At this point I'd be estatic if it were faster than the Fw190A-5.  I had been hoping for La-5FN type speed, oh well.  As to the firepower, the Ki-84-I-Otsu would not even begin to approach the F4U-1C.  It would have four 20mm Ho-5 cannon with 150 rounds each.  The Ki-84 in AH already has two of these cannon.

Originally posted by SlapShot
Cause some want to get in a ride that performs both like the P-51 and La-7 without having to withstand the "DWEEB" label.

And some don't get it at all but like to be derogatory and snide anyways.

You haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about SlapShot.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by peregrin
He said:
"faster and has more cannons"

It's true he didn't say how fast, or how many cannons, but:
1. I must have read 100 times (exageration) that the ki-84 should have been modeled faster than the p-51d.
2. The AH ki-84 has been rated more maneuverable than the spit9 by the majority of BBS posters who've reviewed the plane.
3. I assume that more cannons than 2 is 4.  While 3 is also more than 2, it's assymetric and unlikely.  So, 4 cannons + 2 MG is a bigger punch than the f4u-1c which only has 4 cannons.

If we got the above, it would certainly be a perked plane.  

I'm not trying to insult anyone, pick a fight or make you (Karnak) quit AH, just pointing out that asking for the fastest, most maneuverable plane possible won't help much if it's perked.
--Peregrine.

then do not cut and quote what I typed to fit your need!
this is what I said
"well, maybe if HTC decides to leave this model of the Ki-84 like it is, they can make it with the same ENY values as the F4U-1 or P47D11 and bring in another variant of the Ki-84 which is a bit faster and has more cannons? and it have a lower ENY value to boot........sort of like the La7 and P51D............"

I did not say make it faster than any plane, I did not say make it perform better than any plane, I did not even say perk it, nor did I say make it have better guns than any plane. I really don't give a damn what you do or HTC does with this plane or any plane

from all of my sim experience in different sims, which I might add does not qualify for anything, the ki-84s modeled could intially run down a P51D but the P51D would walk away from them on the long run, when A ki-84 went up against an F6F the outcome was determined by the pilot's skill

a Ki-84 will not have 4 cannons and 2 machine guns I do not think, either 2 cannons 2 machine guns or 4 cannons

also when the ki-84 reached certian excessive speeds along with any japan plane it would break apart especially if you pulled mass G manuevers.......

I do not have an agenda here, I was making a suggestion to please both sides..........


TY Karnak, for trying to correct him and standing up for my comment/opinion/suggestion

[Stang]

Originally posted by Urchin

However.. the low (and I do mean LOW) speed handling is superb.  In a "stall fight" the Ki84 handily whipped the P-38 and the Spit 9, because it is relatively stable down to about 70 mph.  You have to try to keep the manuevering nose to nose though, it doesnt do as well nose to tail.

I think the key to it's low speed handling is using the vertical with a ton of rudder, ala the p38.  I was messing with the KI and was able to pull a double immelman starting at 100mph!  Now THAT is what I call uber  

This plane is way better than it's getting credit for.  Just because it isn't the one all be all la7 killer some of us thought it would be, doesn't mean it is a crappy ride.  It's still an EZ mode plane, but not enough to help the seal pups out, so go get back in your la7's...  

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Karnak
I had been hoping for La-5FN type speed, oh well.

Not having followed the long-lived Frank topic, I gather from this that there really aren't any good statistics on the operational versions of the airplane?

- oldman

[icemaw]

Took off with 75% fuel forget what the actual mins of flight was but on par with a pony. Climbs like a rocket. Views from cockpit good but it aint no pony. New dash and gages are outstanding. getting used to them and reading them well that will take some time.
  Performance is about what I expected. A little more deck speed would be nice but only for a RTB. High speed handling is exactly what I expected and is accurate as far anything I have ever read on the subject or have experienced in any flight sim. Since I or anyone else here has never flow the real thing who knows for sure. Slow speed handling is outstanding as long as you dont horse it around. If your gentile with the stick and dont force it you are rewarded with a very docile bird. Yank it past the limit and your going to be fighting for controll. Especialy when turning right. But at least the snap spins I have encountered are VERY easy to recover from.

 On my first hop I let it climb on auto climb untill about 15k leveled and did a few turns that is when I noticed you could not force it to turn. I put the nose down a little to get some speed up looking for the compression point. Got to over 500 in a shallow dive and never got any real compression controlls were very heavy tho from 300 up increasing as the speed increased. I noticed about 300 you could not pull enough G's to get to black out. Roll rate a speed is well slow but I expected that. Under 300 she is very nimble and docile if you let her fly. If you yank your gonna hate her. Get down to the flap speed and you will notice a vast increase in turning performance. All them fast Allied planes dont want to get under flap deployment speed in front of a KI84 cause they are toast if they do.

  Fire power is outstanding much what I expected from my KI61 experience. Hosers will say the cannons go quick I know cause I am a hoser myself. But if you wait and get one short burst in real close your target is going BOOM.

 2nd hop went to a furball got a couple kills. Ran low on ammo shooting at a b24. So I RTBed. 3rd hop back to furball. Climbed for a little while and before I knew it I was 17k over furball. High diving KI84 are going to be a common sight over furballs. They climb so fast you dont realize how high you are. Well I spied a goon and rolled over to pop it. It was pretty much a straight down dive throttle chopped rudder over as a speed brake. Well about 450 or so rudder said see ya. Know not to do that again. Missed the goon barely pulled out and got popped by a a20 in the vert was looking back at a 190 that I was roping a20 got me from above.

  All in All a fun plane going to be a lot of fun in the MA. Level it wont catch a pony or LALA but dive in and make one turn MMMM Crunchy!!

[Karnak]

Originally posted by icemaw
All in All a fun plane going to be a lot of fun in the MA. Level it wont catch a pony or LALA but dive in and make one turn MMMM Crunchy!!

I don't think the Ki-84 can turn well enough at any sort of speed where it will force such a manuver to capitalize on the manuver.  The P-51D, La-7 or Typhoon will simply break turn aout of the way and then leave while the Ki-84 does a huge arc trying to get back to it's intended prey.  If the Allied fighter chooses to fight instead they can simply roll out of the way, roll back in after the Ki-84 has passed and then easily turn inside it and shoot it down.

[SlapShot]

You haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about SlapShot.

I don't have to ... to understand that you are "over-the-top" or "off-the-hook".

You have been stomping feverishly in every single thread that has anything to do with the Ki-84. You need to chill out and present some convincing data (hard data) that would help with the situation, rather than frothing at the mouth and doing everything just short of pulling a "Storch".

My squaddie, Sax, had a problem when Pyro removed the WEP from the FM2. Rather than run all over the board like the tasmainian devil, we asked what it was that he needed to be convinced that the FM2 did truely did have WEP. Well, our other squaddie, Bohdi, came up with the goods ... hence the version of the FM2 that we have now has WEP.

[Karnak]

Good job Bodhi.

There were a great many threads about the Ki-84 before it's release.  They included data that I do not have access to.  Pyro made his choices and no I'm not happy about them.  I never did manage to find any specific data on the roll rate or elevator heaviness, but the pilot accounts I did read did not make it sound as poor as the A6M.

Unfortunately finding the lock solid kind of evidence that you refer to is nigh impossible outside of US aircraft and maybe the Spitfire.

I know that I have been very agressive in stating my opinion, but your claims of what I wanted are only in your imagination and that is where you are clueless.  Contrary to your claims I did not want a fighter that was in all ways better than the P-51D and La-7.  Nor did I expect perfect high speed handling.  Heavy controls at speed were a given and the performance I was hoping for was still far below either the P-51D or La-7.  The performance I was expecting was about 340-345mph at sea level and 392mph at best altitude.  Not nearly 380mph on the deck.

We'll see what happens, but whatever does more than likely resides in the hands of Japanese players andPyro's.

[SlapShot]

but your claims of what I wanted are only in your imagination and that is where you are clueless.

I did not name names ... but for that I apologize.

[Karnak]

SlapShot,

You are definately right that I did not take this well or gracefully.

I will try to, um, moderate myself better.

[SlapShot]

Karnack ...

Don't know if this will help, but if you want to get excited about a plane and find something new that does have decent speed and some teeth ...

... get in the P-47-D25 !!!

Due to the ENY limiter, and Nopoop's awesome skinning, I decided/forced myself to fly this plane and boy am I glad I did.

8 x .50 cals ... not quite the Mossies hitting power, but a buzzsaw nevertheless.

With a little bit of alt and/or some smash, this plane can chase down anything that flys (P-51, La-7, 109, 190, P-38). Excellent handling at high speed.

Low speed handling, with flaps ... it won't quite turn with the Spits and the Zekes, but can and will surprize the crap out of them if they take the P-47 for granted and any other plane too. If you miss within a couple of turns, its decent acceleration can get you out and back into the fight. I have no quams taking this into a furball with some initial speed.

Had a nice fight with a Ki-84 at 10K last night and waxed it pretty good ... same goes for 109s and 190s. If flown aggressively ... its a monster.

[Karnak]

I fly the P-47D-25 now and then, but I just haven't had any success in it.   A few weeks ago Pongo and I were winging in it and you're right about NoPoop's skins, they're very good.

What is surprising is how much familiarity with an airplane helps you suceed.  After flying the P-47D-25 with Pongo we took a couple of other aircraft, me a Mossie and Pongo something else.  I found fighting much easier, and I know the Mossie isn't as good a fighter as the P-47, so it could only have been my familiarity that was the difference.

[slimm50]

Even though I've said I'd take my Pony over the current Ki model, one thing I have to say about this Frank: I just Luuuuuvvv the way it's engine sounds!:D