Is that terrorist bellybutton Arafat dead?

[Wolfala]

[GRUNHERZ]

Beutiful!

Lets move on. Nuke you are still an ignorant jerk tonite, but lets move on...

[NUKE]

Grun, lets summarise...

You think American started a war against GB.

You think Lincoln started the Civil war.

You think America started a war against Spain.

You think America started a war against Panama and Grenada.

You think America started a war against Iraq.

Correct?

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by NUKE
Grun, you are being a dumb arse.

Israel nation documented thousands of years ago. They deserve thier land.

Arafat is a plain old Arab from Egypt and "Palestinians" nor "Palestine" ever existed in history.

Grun, why are you anti Israel?

The kingdom of Isreal existed for barely 200 hundred years before they were conquered by the Assyrians in 721 BC . The kingdom of Isreal having of course conquered the existing holders, the Canaanites.

Now if thats the requirement for original owners to take possesion, "previous history", I'd be ready to make the move to a reservation if I were you cause the original owners now deservedly own your house

 Tronsky

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by NUKE
Grun, lets summarise...

You think American started a war against GB.

You think Lincoln started the Civil war.

You think America started a war against Spain.

You think America started a war against Panama and Grenada.

You think America started a war against Iraq.

Correct?

You cant assign guilt for the civil war on the south and then not assign guilt for starting the revolutionary war on the americans. So Lincoln was a rhetorical question.

The spanish american war was satrted by the USA. No question about it.  The Maine was NOT blown up by a mine. Reseach shows it to have suffered a coal dust explosion.  The american press drummed up the public and the govermnet obliged.  This one was clearly a rush to war by the USA. Still it went well and America was differnt back then and the public supported the war.  

Panama and Grenada are obvious, and I agree with those wars in defense of us intersts.

Iraq is also obvious, president Bush started that war based on his pre-emptive war doctorine. I support this war.

The probkem with your arghument is its  obsurd absoluteness. "everyone who starts a war goes to hell."  What if you start a war to defend your national interst like we did in Panama and Iraq?

You can try your legal technicalities about the Iraq war cease fire but it doesnt hold. That cease fire was an agreement between the UN and Iraq, and we know how the UN felt about that war. So when we went without UN approval all those legal technicalities of the UN/Iraq cease fire were void.

However IMO we had a greater justification than legal technicalities and that made our start of the Iraq war justifed.  But yiu say that those who astrt wars go to hell so I imagine you disagree.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by -tronski-
The kingdom of Isreal existed for barely 200 hundred years before they were conquered by the Assyrians in 721 BC . The kingdom of Isreal having of course conquered the existing holders, the Canaanites.

Now if thats the requirement for original owners to take possesion, "previous history", I'd be ready to make the move to a reservation if I were you cause the original owners now deservedly own your house

 Tronsky

Yep. This idea that Israel was some permanent fixture in all infinty is one of the most ignorant bible thumping fallacies I have ever encountered. Jews are just another group of people who have had tyheir ups and downs and movements just like everyone..

Nuke lives in arizona.. Maybe he should give up his home to a full blooded native indian and move back to france...

[NUKE]

Originally posted by -tronski-
The kingdom of Isreal existed for barely 200 hundred years before they were conquered by the Assyrians in 721 BC . The kingdom of Isreal having of course conquered the existing holders, the Canaanites.

Now if thats the requirement for original owners to take possesion, "previous history", I'd be ready to make the move to a reservation if I were you cause the original owners now deservedly own your house

 Tronsky

What does any of that have to do with the Jews and thier right to a homeland?

The Arabs have plenty of homeland. The Palestinians are just plain old Arabs, nothing more.

Why do people cry for a Palestinian homeland?

T

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nuke lives in arizona.. Maybe he should give up his home to a full blooded native indian and move back to france...

And you live in California I (I was born there) so maybe you should give up your home to the Spanish, who took the land from the natives.

Maybe you should move back to your home country and I will stay in mine.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Jews are just another group of people who have had tyheir ups and downs and movements just like everyone..

LOL

So all of your arguments about the "Palestinians" mean what?

And the Jews have a tiny speck of land. where do you propose the Jews establish thier homeland?

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by NUKE
What does any of that have to do with the Jews and thier right to a homeland?

The Arabs have plenty of homeland. The Palestinians are just plain old Arabs, nothing more.

Why do people cry for a Palestinian homeland?

I agree. There should be be no seperate Palestenian state. All should be one big Israel, west bank gaza and all.

Every palestenian should then be made a full Israeli ciotizen with all due rights and privelages. That way in 10 years when the palestians outnumber the jews in the full borders of Israel they can take the country over from the jews by dominating every election.
l
NUKe are sure you you are not secretly a palestian strategist plotting their ultimate victory?

Or Israel can just become like good old apartheit South Africa where a minority polulation holds all power and limits the
voting and civil rights of the majorirty to maintain that power structure.

Of course the other option for israel is having a sepewrate palestian homeland state.

Which of the three looks best to you?

A palestenian majority dominated fully democratic one israel. (do you think the muslim palestian goverment will keep the star of david flag?)

A permantely apartheit Israel where the palestians dont have full rights? (do yoiu think they will be upset?)

A viable seperate and fair Palestenian state...

Hmmm.. Tough choices there...

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by NUKE
And you live in California I (I was born there) so maybe you should give up your home to the Spanish, who took the land from the natives.

Maybe you should move back to your home country and I will stay in mine.

I'm not making the idiotic argument like yours that because they lived there 2,000 years ago so they automatically have rights to it over the modern polulation.

Thats your argument, not mine.  I am simply mocking you.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by NUKE
LOL

So all of your arguments about the "Palestinians" mean what?

And the Jews have a tiny speck of land. where do you propose the Jews establish thier homeland?

Wherever they can get and maintain one, same for jews and palestians. Of course their standard of living and security depends on how they treat their neighbors and the strenght of their friends.

In a few years the palestians will outnumber the jews in the borders of the greater israel. If Israel doesnt give them full rights or a free state israel will become the new south africa. That staus should be great fun for a tiny state like israel.  Both economically and of courss ironically... Oh the Irony, do you think the Jews will make all the palestians wear green crescent moon armbands?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I agree. There should be be no seperate Palestenian state. All should be one big Israel, west bank gaza and all.

Then we agree, no Palestinian state.

It only makes sense, since there never has been a state of Palestine.


There should be an Israeli state. I'm glad we agree.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by NUKE
Then we agree, no Palestinian state.

It only makes sense, since there never has been a state of Palestine.


There should be an Israeli state. I'm glad we agree.

Great!

In 10 years there will be more Plaestenians than Jews and the Jewish State of israel will shortly be voted away into history when masses of very very muslim palestian voters take over the government at the polls!!! Majority rule is wonderful and Israel should be applauded for its true commitment to democracy.

Right? Unless Israel goes nazi/south africa/jim crow and denies more than half its population the right to vote as a full citizen the muslim palestians will inevitablt take over because of their very high birthrates..

Awesome!! Thats clearly the best outcome for the historical jewish state of israel.  I just love the sound of Israel  Prime Minster Yasser Arafat Jr leading a Fatah Party/Hamas coalition goverment into yet another great electoral victory in the Knesset (if its still called that).. Has a great ring to it, no?

So to put it quite simply for one as dense as you, unless there is a seperate plaestenian state Isreal will invetably become like south africa. The only choice is whether it will be the isolated racist opressive south africa of apartheid or the democratic black majority ruled south africa of the 1990s...

Your choice bud...

[Suave]

Nuke's got a point, non isreali palistinians are in fact from, egypt, jordan and syria. The borders of their countries were moved by isreal, and instead of chosing to move with their respective countries borders they chose to stay there in the land that Isreal annexed.  Palistine is just a geographic region, not a nation. The great majority of palistine is on the other side of the river in Jordan, yet we don't see the "palistinians" waging war agains the Jordanian occupation.  Isrealis are palistinians too, be they jews or arabs.