conspiracy theory on history channel..

[lazs2]

geeze I love hearing about how guns work from guys who probly never shot one.   For you who think a carcano is inaccurate I would ask you to stand or even run 300 yards away while I took a shot at you with one that was equipped with a scope.

The carcano has an extremely nice/easy bolt action and a worn one is even better.   they are a very flat shooting round and one zeroed in at 100 yards like anyone would do at a range.... would be perfect at 70 to 150.   Oswalds gun and ammo would probly group 2 inches at 100 yards.

Oswald went up to the window and with a gun package and someone then fired the 3 shots from there.   the balistics of the rounds that were fired showed they all came from there.  the rifle and spent rounds were found there with oswalds prints on em and the bullets recovered came from that gun...

a guy who looked just like oswald ran away and later shot a cop with another of Oswalds guns, a 38 with damaged rifling.   Oswald was captured in the area.

Get over it... he did it.   I don't know why but he did it.

lazs

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by lazs2
Oswald went up to the window and with a gun package and someone then fired the 3 shots from there.   the balistics of the rounds that were fired showed they all came from there.  the rifle and spent rounds were found there with oswalds prints on em and the bullets recovered came from that gun...

a guy who looked just like oswald ran away and later shot a cop with another of Oswalds guns, a 38 with damaged rifling.   Oswald was captured in the area.

Get over it... he did it.   I don't know why but he did it.

lazs

lazs.. i can respect your point of view , but you are using the official story to prove the official story, which is what is in question.
  If you believe the real people eyewitnesses that saw officer tippet murdered, there were 2 guys assalting him, and the shooter was much larger than oswald.  Countless eyewitnesses were disregarded and ignored (and murdered) when they're story conflicted with the 'official' story.  
 
The bottom line is, there are so many, 'well, its possible that it couldve happend this way' hurdles and hoops that the official story has to jump throguh that one can only look for the key piece of evidince to unlock the case beyond any doubt.
  There are several.  Number one, Lee Oswald himself.  Shot dead by a distraught 'patriot' inside of the police station.  Hmmmm.  They shouldve hired security.
  #2.  The limo, which reportedly held evidence of more bullets, perhaps as many as 3 more bullets fired. Destroyed out of respect to the family.  
  #3.  The presidents brain.  A first year med student couldve reconstructed the brain in order to find out beyond any doubt whcih direction the head shot came from.  Unfortunaltey, the military, for some reason, was in charge of this civilian autopsy and failed to deem that necessary.  By the way, the photographer of the autopsy committed suicide shortly thereafter.   Gunshot to the face.  Hmmmm.  The brain, a crucial piece of evidence in this crime, lost forever!
  The question should be, since no heads rolled from these rediculous botches of the investigation into the assasination of the president of the US, is who was in a position to cause these 'oversights '?  That is who had kennedy killed.  It doesnt really matter who pulled the trigger.

[DoctorYO]

well history is usually his-story so a dry ice bullet would do the trick especially how the crime seen was tampered with the main suspect is murdered and technology was lightyears behind what we got now in the form of computer and forensic indentification..

watch the actual footage and watch his head snap back and forth a few times and then claim 1 shooter is beyond foolishness..  Look at his wounds highly irregular to say the least..

Olli stones movie is just that a movie..  But the actual footage I think tells the story pretty clearly if you know anything about ballistics...  Throw in the fact that that JFK really was shaking washington up at the time and thru deductive reasoning its pretty obvious who, where, and why....


make your own deductions..



DoctorYo

[lazs2]

I have watched people in bullet proof vest take rounds more powerfull than the ones that Oswald shot at kennedy.    They did not move at all..  there is no real push from the bullet... they flinched... real people hit by bullets have reactions that are not from the impact but from the muscle and nerve reactions of the wounded or dying brain.   It is the hight of foolishness and ignorance to think that bullets were throwing the dead kennedy around.   shooting people who are allready dead also proves this... they don't move at all or very little.

There is no evidence of more than three shots fired.   There is no evidence that anyone but oswald was up there shooting and every ballistics test shows that the shots came from there.

Of course.... I don't have access to the real data like whithawk... I am only going by the data available to the public.   My guess is tho that if you have any other data then you must either be or know the real shooters.

lazs

[AKIron]

I remember watching Stone's JFK but after watching Alexander the other night I immediatley purged every Oliver Stone movie I have seen from my brain, 110v wouldn't do it, had to plug in to 220v. Was JFK a conspiracy theory movie?

Trust me on this, Alexander is really that bad.

[Shuckins]

The home movie  of Mrs. Muchmore , which was taken from the opposite side of the road from the Zapruder film, clearly shows the spray of blood, brain and bone from Kennedy's head being blown forward and upward.  This is consistent with a bullet strike from the REAR.

Other home movies and still photographs taken at the time show NO ONE standing on the overpass or on the grassy knoll, two of the most often cited positions for the theoretical second gunman.

As to the missing brain, why haven't you mentioned the rumor that it was turned over to Robert Kennedy so that it could be interred with the body?  Given the secretiveness of the Kennedy clan, as well as their political clout, I can't see them leaving John's brain to be preserved and gawked at by future generations of amateur investigators.

[WhiteHawk]

Well, lets look at this from another standpoint.

Here is what makes me a conspiracy kook on the JFK thing.

Lazs stated that a Oswald entered the book store with a gun case.  
  Question:  Do you honestly believe that the secret service would allow a man to enter a building with a snipers vantage point with a gun case the day the presidient was scheduled to ride in a convertable during the height of the cold war?   The shot that Oswald would have had from  the front as the limo approached the book store was far clearer than the one he took, it was the perfect snipers nest and yet no secret service?  Does anybody know the name of the secret service agent in charge of security that day?  Was he fired?  
  You see, the officials are so in tune with what it takes to pull of a successful mind ****, that they dont care how rediculous the story is.  


Schuckins, I wasnt aware of that rumor about the presidents brain.  It was pickeled and sent to the nat'l archives and promptly lost before conspiracy kooks could get thier hands on it and confuse the masses.  Nobody knows what happened to the presidnets brain.
  Question: Do you honestly believe that a sniper homicide investigation wouldnt think about determining the trajectory/path of the fatal head shot?!?!    The simple fact that we are arguing amongst ourselves about where the head shot came from is testimony to the UNBELIEVABLE incompetence of the investigation.    This is the president of the USA here.


One more question fromt he side of the 'official story': if the majic bullet wasnt the bullet that lodged in Conallys leg, where is it?

[WhiteHawk]

Here is the load the warren commision wants us  conspiracy kooks to swallow without som much as a peep.

1. With a downward angle of 17 it hits Kennedy in the right shoulder.
2. Then inside his body it turns upwards and exits through his throat.
3. On the way to Connally it pauses for 1.6 seconds and the proceeds in a zigzag move into the Governors right armpit.
4. Inside this body the bullet takes a turn 27 downwards and destroys Connallys 5th rib and exits through his chest.
5. Then the bullet turns right and enters his right hand where it pulverises the radius bone and exits the hand on the other side.
6. At last the bullet enters Connallys left thigh where it finally is "put to rest".
7. But it is not over yet! The bullet falls/crawls out of the Governor and ends up on the stretcher beside Kennedy in the Parkland Memorial Hospital.

These words are sarcastical but they are the facts of the majic bullet, for those of you that are wondering what all the hooplah is bout.

[A_Clown]

I dont have enough info to formulate an opinion on the number of shooters. However I am convinced there was a conspiracy, the number of strange circumstances that had to out just exactly as they did, is far to great for it to be anything but a conspracy.

Starting with the unscheduled/unplanned removal of the cars top, the whole grassy knoll/magic bullet theories, the botched crime scene, the virgin M.E. working on the Prez. and botching the job, losing the brain, and all the other stuff I left out-  it REAKS of conspiracy.

But that CANT be, the CIA would have nothing to do with any conspiracy of any kind.

[lazs2]

whitehawk... oswald worked at the book de4pository and carried a bundle that he said was curtain rods but was indeed a rifle... it was the rifle that killed kennedy.   The bullet never paused for 1.6 seconds.   It sounds like you are getting all your info from a..... movie... a movie that was made by a guy with even less honesty and credibility than michele moore.

face it... oswalds rifle killed jfk from the depository window while oswald was in the room with it.

lazs

[Vulcan]

LOL @ "ice bullet" theory, what a handsomehunk idea.

The thing is about all this is it was the 60's, back then ballastics weren't what they are today, neither were forensics. Just look at how many unsolvedmurders from the 70's got solved in the late 90s/early 2000's.

Oswald may have got off more than 3 shots, he might have got off 5 or 6, with some missing, theres all sorts of stuff that could have gone on.

The point here to note is most of the conspiracy theories rely on throwing down "facts" which are blatantly incorrect and rely on the general publics lack of technical knowledge, such as the accuracy of such a rifle at 88 yards, the ability to get 3 shots in such a short time etc. The fact that the conspiracy theorists have to lie to add weight to their argument should say a lot to any logically thinking person.

[Traveler]

The over through of the US Government that took place on November 22 with the murder of JFK has been investigated  by two official Government bodies.  The Warren Commission found that there was one shooter.  A second official Government body, The House Assassinations Committee report found that there was more then one shooter.  Those are the facts.  Next subject.

[Shuckins]

Sigh.  So much naivete...so little time.

Guys, I'm going to assume that you "true believers" have little or no experience with firearms and have no knowledge what a bullet is actually capable of doing after it strikes flesh.

I have and I do.

First, the 6.5 solid that hit Kennedy was traveling at 2300 feet per second.  Think about that for a moment.  That's more than a third of a mile per second.  That caliber loaded with a solid projectile was used by Karamajo Bell to kill countless elephants in Africa.  Single shots to the brain.  A 140 grain 6.5 mm bullet has a LOT of penetrating power.

Second, bullets of all types and velocities regularly DO change course within the body.  All the slug has to do is strike a bone...whether a glancing blow or full on doesn't matter.  It is not unusual for them to change direction more than twice.  I once read an autopsy on a criminal shot with a .22 long rifle cartridge.  If memory serves, it struck him in the elbow, traveled up his arm, ricocheted off his collar bone, bounced around in his abdomen a couple of times, and came to rest in his ankle.

Third, the second bullet, having exited Kennedy's lower throat, struck Connelly under his right arm because he had turned to look over his right shoulder upon hearing the first shot.  Connelly, an experienced HUNTER, realized (and later testified to that fact), that the first shot had become from behind the limo and to his right.

Fourth, that bullet, after exiting just below his right nipple, came to rest in his leg, its velocity largely spent.  Oh, and by the way, bullets often DO fall out of wounds in just such a manner as has been described in Connelly's case.  I have found pieces of spent bullets on the back side of deer that have been shot.

Lastly, I have not, in any of my posts, denied that there might have been a conspiracy.  The shooting of Oswald by Ruby provides circumstantial evidence of a possible Mob connection.

Nevertheless, there has never been any proof that there was a second shooter.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Vulcan
.

Oswald may have got off more than 3 shots, he might have got off 5 or 6, with some missing, theres all sorts of stuff that could have gone on.

The point here to note is most of the conspiracy theories rely on throwing down "facts" which are blatantly incorrect and rely on the general publics lack of technical knowledge, such as the accuracy of such a rifle at 88 yards, the ability to get 3 shots in such a short time etc. The fact that the conspiracy theorists have to lie to add weight to their argument should say a lot to any logically thinking person.

Jee Vulcan, when you say 'oswald may have gotten off more than 3 shots' you are saying, 'there may have been a conspiracy. ' Then you go on to ridicule conspiracy theroists even though you may be one of them.  
  I do agree with you thogh, people often get involved with such discussions without having educated themselves on the facts.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by lazs2
whitehawk... oswald worked at the book de4pository and carried a bundle that he said was curtain rods but was indeed a rifle... it was the rifle that killed kennedy.   The bullet never paused for 1.6 seconds.   It sounds like you are getting all your info from a..... movie... a movie that was made by a guy with even less honesty and credibility than michele moore.

face it... oswalds rifle killed jfk from the depository window while oswald was in the room with it.

lazs

Once again lazs, its 2 people hopelessly in disagrement.  I respect your opinion and ability to stay within the argument and not start up with infantile name calling.  
Keep in mind, the warren commission had to stick to their story and make things workout within the zapruder film, which surfaced long after the assassination.  
  From the point of a conspiracy kook, here is what I  am asked to believe.
  Our secret service at the height of the cold war, would be so incompetent, that they would allow a man with a package that could possibly hold a rifle into a building that has a brilliant snipers position.  This man just happens to be a known communist cuban sympathizer and a former soviet citizen.
They did not sweep the area before hand, as is common sense as well as strict standard procedures, they did not have agents on rooftops with binoculars and radios.  They had NO safeguards against snipers.
  This man, in approxamately 7 seconds, fires 3 shots 1 miss, and 2 hits causing 7 wounds, 1 a fatal headshot.
  One of the bullets has a remarkable journey.  Admittadly, not impossible, but very remarkable.  The bullet falls out of the body and rolls throgh the clothes and winds up on a stretcher. Another lucky break, the bullet is in good enuff shape to match it to the Communist who brought the package in broad daylight the day of the presidential motorcade.  
  The forensics at that time were so inferir than that of today that they could not determine the trajectory of the bullet by using sceince, even thoguh they had the forensics to plot the remarkable journey fo the magic bullet.    
  Case closed say the officials.

Then the zapruder film comes out and clearly (to me) shows the head shot from the front right.  Here come the conspiracy kooks, really, can you blame them?
   Us paranoids are not wondering who is presidinet, we are wondering who is in control of our military.