By the way, the new Afghan president

[oboe]

Originally posted by Momus--
Why? The country's full name is "The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan". The government is supposed to be Islamic in nature. They don't enjoy the nominal separation of church and state the US enjoys.

If you are correct about this, then I'm afraid history is doomed to repeat itself.   All the money we spent invading Afghanistan and toppling the Taliban regime will have been wasted.   Not saying it'll occur immediately, but the fundamental change that was needed (separation of church and state) appears to be missing.

I just wish Bush would follow through on his promise to find Osama and bring him to justice.   I wouldn't be surprised if OBL is already something of an Islamic folk hero, and I'm sure that any head of state whose primary duty is to defend and protect Islam will find many other projects to occupy his time rather than find OBL.

I agree with Ack-Ack, the US has all but given up on finding him.   One of the most egregious flip-flops GWB made, IMO.

No doubt fighting the opium drug cartels is important from our point of view, however I wouldn't be surprised if Karzai starts waging a long, halfhearted and ineffective battle against them, since their profits support radical Islam.

From my point of view, Afghanistan now looks like a total bust.

[SirLoin]

Originally posted by Yeager
One thing you will never see in your lifetime is Osama Bin Laden speaking in public.

Are you kidding??..

After this "Terrorism" thing all blows over,he'll be on tour in the US promoting he's own book(George and Me)...be busy securing the rights to a major motion picture(Osama Yo' Mama)...be sharing an objective conversation with Phil Donahue on live TV...be recording an Islamic/Rap CD(with Mike Tyson)...become a dastardly manager for professional wrestling...having his own "Islamic"s Court" TV show where Islamic sentences are graphically carried out...


Prolly end up dukin it out with GWB in "Celebrity Boxing" on PPV and ol' George boy givin him a whoopin..and pile drivin OSB neck first into the mat...OSB is carried out in a stretcher.

A rematch is born!($75 PPV)

This post brought to you by Coke..."Open a Can of Coke,Unleash a can of Whoopass!"...GWB(Smirky/Smile Pix)

[Momus--]

You need to distinguish between various manifestations of Islam Oboe. They are NOT all like the militant Wahabi/Deobandi/Safalist strains that were characteristic of the Taliban and groups like Al-qaeda and Islamic Jihad and largely foreign to central asia. The native form of Islam in Afghanistan is a mild type related to the Sufi branch of the religion.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by oboe
... Not saying it'll occur immediately, but the fundamental change that was needed (separation of church and state) appears to be missing.

The head of state in the UK has in her title  "By the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her Other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith."

So much for seperation.  The UK and it's commonweath are doomed.

[oboe]

I hope you are right Momus.    Although I have to wonder if Afghanistan is home to such a mild strain of Islam, how did the Taliban arise to such power in the first place?

I also wonder if there are any safeguards in the new arrangement to prevent it from happening again over a period of time.

What's certain is our money has been borrowed and spent, our soldiers have fought; some have died.   And yet OBL is free, and the democracy we have installed in Afghanistan lacks one of the most basic tenets of our system - a separation of powers of church and state.

(Although I noted your use of the term "nominal separation" and give you a nod of understanding in light of the current US administration).

EDIT:
Holden - point taken, but which Faith?

[Momus--]

Although I have to wonder if Afghanistan is home to such a mild strain of Islam, how did the Taliban arise to such power in the first place?

In a nutshell, the Taliban was largely created by the ISI (Pakistani Military Intelligence), using resources provided to it by the US and Saudi regimes during the fight against the pro-Russian regime during the late 1970s and 1980s.

Some of the original Taliban fighters were Pakistani nationals. Many of the later members were students (Taliban literally means "Students") from the Saudi-funded fundamentalist schools or medressas that were founded to house Afghan refugees in Pakistan.

[SirLoin]

Damn Saudi's keep comin up on to hit list...I wonder why?

[jEEZY]

   You dont have to be a genius to tell that Bushy is christian fanatic.

You do have to be a genius, however, to understand how adeptly Bush manipulates that perception of him for political power.  Is it "harmful" to the body politic? probably, but it is in no way original, nor is it any more "harmful" than milking a perception of being non-religious.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by oboe
It wasn't an oath to God - it was a pledge to defend Islam.
An odd thing for a head of state to swear to, in my mind.

We don't make our Presidents swear to uphold Christianity.   Not sure of the words to our oath, but I imagine it goes something along the lines of swearing to uphold the Constitution, so help him God.  Something like that, right?

Very different than what Karzai swore to, and not only that, it was a distinctly separate oath from the oath to office.    I was looking on google from the text of the oath of Alligience to Islam but no one carried it to that detail.

I believe their constitution *is* Allah and Islam. So help them, God.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by jEEZY
You do have to be a genius

thank you

[Tinpot]

You origionaly said

"I also read somewhere that Karzai considers fighting the opium drug cartels more important than finding Osama Bin Laden. I hate to see OSB free and unpursued. He must be laughing his prettythang off at us."

I hope he does tackle the drug trade. I work with young people and I have seen the horror that Heroin can cause first hand. It wrecks many many lives. It is the biggest weapon and the most insidious form of attack on our society of all. Far worse than the occasional terrorist attack as it is long term and destroys the fabric of our society.

Sorry but I think fighting thwe drug trade is a much higher priority than Osama.

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Our presidents make an oath to God, so whats different?

Article 6
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

[Rude]

Originally posted by SunTracker
No, I remember watching him say it, perhaps during one of the debates.  He talked about praying to God and then saying that God told him to invade.  

George Bush is a born again Christian.  Are you surprised he said that?

Totally untrue.....nice spin.

[TheDudeDVant]

Sorry but I think fighting thwe drug trade is a much higher priority than Osama.

I would have to disagree with this. The use of drugs is an act of choice but the attack by terrorist is not..

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by Tinpot

Sorry but I think fighting thwe drug trade is a much higher priority than Osama.

That was what the Bush admin was thinking when they gave the Taliban millions to reward them for their drug war success while still harboring Osama prior to 9/11.