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Author Topic: RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,  (Read 4110 times)

Offline MOSQ

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« on: December 10, 2004, 01:40:40 PM »
Interesting reading:

In 1944 trials were made with the new Tempest Mk. V. The Tempest was fully compared with the nearest companion, the Typhoon IB. Tactical comparisons were also made with the Mustang III (P-51B), Spitfire XIV, Bf 109G and Fw 190. This is the report from the Air Fighting Development Unit at the R.A.F. station at Witter.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/versus.htm
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Offline Angus

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 01:54:33 PM »
Very nice.
Be prepared for the Luftwaffles to join the fray :D
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Karnak

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 02:26:23 PM »
That report has it out turning the Bf109G-6, but being matched in turning by the Fw190A.  The Bf109 out turns the Fw190.  I wonder what was wrong with the Bf109?  Gun gondolas adding weight?  Pilot inexperience with the slats?  Something else?
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Offline BUG_EAF322

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2004, 02:43:32 PM »
It seems such tests are mostly pretty controversial.
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Offline Crumpp

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2004, 03:08:56 PM »
Yeah it did really well against a de rated FW-190G they tried to reconvert to fighter status.  Got a copy of the original.

Crumpp
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Offline Angus

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2004, 03:18:36 PM »
Well, there were derated 190's in combat then?????

Anyway, Typhoon pilots sometimes states they did not worry about the German planes catcing up with them.

A P51 Pilot said that Typhoon, Spit XIV's and especially Tempests were really faster than his P51, which however was quick enough to catch 190's and 109's

Also, I have heard of rocket-carrying Typhoons with no guns at all, just for the sheer speed. They did not have to worry about bring intercepted en route, just to get bounced when getting away. With light load = uninterceptable.

Any more data ???
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline MANDO

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2004, 03:20:32 PM »
Based on that report, Tempest V would have a maximum climb rate below 3600 fpm, ours reaches 4500 fpm.
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Offline Angus

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2004, 03:42:55 PM »
How do you get that conclusion Mando????
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline straffo

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2004, 03:51:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Well, there were derated 190's in combat then?????

Anyway, Typhoon pilots sometimes states they did not worry about the German planes catcing up with them.

A P51 Pilot said that Typhoon, Spit XIV's and especially Tempests were really faster than his P51, which however was quick enough to catch 190's and 109's

Also, I have heard of rocket-carrying Typhoons with no guns at all, just for the sheer speed. They did not have to worry about bring intercepted en route, just to get bounced when getting away. With light load = uninterceptable.

Any more data ???


No need for data , in AH no one will ever bother to be at cruise speed because of the stupid/cretinistic/incoherent/injustifiable/flawed/fubar  fuel multiplier.

Who care of saving fuel in AH ?

We all cruise at MIL power going flank speed.


It negate the advantage the Typhoon had real  : an high cruise speed.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2004, 03:58:16 PM by straffo »
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Offline Crumpp

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2004, 03:54:56 PM »
Quote
Well, there were derated 190's in combat then?????


Yes there were derated 190's sent into combat.

Crumpp
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Offline rshubert

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2004, 04:06:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
No need for data , in AH no one will ever bother to be at cruise speed because of the stupid/cretinistic/incoherent/injustifiable/flawed/fubar  fuel multiplier.

Who care of saving fuel in AH ?

We all cruise at MIL power going flank speed.


It negate the advantage the Typhoon had real  : an high cruise speed.


Straffo, it's not the fuel multiplier--it's the bases 25 miles apart.  They are that close so that those with short attention spans can find a fight within five minutes.



shubie
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Offline MANDO

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2004, 04:20:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
How do you get that conclusion Mando????


That report describes the substained climb rate of the Tempest as 200-300 fpm advantage over Typhoon 1B. It is also indicated that Tempest substained climb rate is behind 109G(seems to be 2) at all heights.

Maximum allowed speed in a dive also seems pretty low: 540 mph at 10000 feet.

I would ask how credible is that report?
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Offline straffo

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2004, 04:25:31 PM »
It's a first batch Tempest perhaps is it the reason the result look strange
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Offline MiloMorai

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2004, 05:34:42 PM »
The only 190s that were de-rated were the A-3s.
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Offline Crumpp

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RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2004, 05:44:21 PM »
Quote
The only 190s that were de-rated were the A-3s.


No Milo.  FW-190's were derated throughout the lifespan of the series.  Most AF derated a few of their planes.  Nothing special.  It is a way to get rid of inferior grade avaition fuel.

Crumpp
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