Author Topic: Congrats, United States of Europe!  (Read 2457 times)

Offline jEEZY

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2004, 06:03:48 PM »
Quote
ya i was thinking the same, balls for what? a new war every



The bitter irony of this of course is that the EU's membership, aside from the UK, was handed thier democracy to them b/c another democracy decided to go to war. Not to mention that their economic pumps were primed by that same country. Now they refuse to give other nations that same courtesy.  They reap the rewards of democracy but refuse to understand the responsibilty therein.  A shame, really.

Offline Panzzer

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2004, 06:04:11 PM »
soda72
Oh yes, they would have to give their money to us Finns (plus Straffo and Saw etc fellas here)... :D
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Offline eskimo2

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2004, 06:09:34 PM »
As soon as Europe lands a man on the moon they will only be 35 years behind the US!

eskimo

Offline lasersailor184

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2004, 06:09:54 PM »
The United States was also a "Loose Confederation of States" once too.  Guess what happened both times it was attempted.



Btw, Giving freedom takes balls guys.  No matter how you try to spin it.
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Offline NUKE

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2004, 06:11:06 PM »
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Originally posted by eskimo2
As soon as Europe lands a man on the moon they will only be 35 years behind the US!

eskimo


What if they do it 40 years from now? ;)

Offline Panzzer

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2004, 06:11:17 PM »
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Originally posted by jEEZY
The bitter irony of this of course is that the EU's membership, aside from the UK, was handed thier democracy to them b/c another democracy decided to go to war. Not to mention that their economic pumps were primed by that same country. Now they refuse to give other nations that same courtesy.  They reap the rewards of democracy but refuse to understand the responsibilty therein.  A shame, really.

Hmm, are you actually sure which countries are in the EU, aside from the UK... Not all the countries were liberated by "another democracy" (for example Sweden, Finland - and all of the Eastern European Countries -- unless you see Soviet Union as a democracy?)
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Offline soda72

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2004, 06:14:07 PM »
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Originally posted by Panzzer
soda72
Oh yes, they would have to give their money to us Finns (plus Straffo and Saw etc fellas here)... :D


aah, so hell will freeze over before they join(or at least until the oil supply runs out).... I guess they are capitalist after all..  :D

Offline jEEZY

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2004, 06:14:37 PM »
Your absolutley correct--Sweden was unaffected by the liberation of France, Germany, holland., belgium, etc.. In fact they were happy go lucky the entire time.  The real shame is that it took 70 years to liberate the rest of Europe.

Obviously you missed the point regarding the reponsibility that democratic nations face .

Offline Panzzer

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2004, 06:18:04 PM »
No, I did not miss that part of your post.. - sorry. :)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 06:26:00 PM by Panzzer »
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Offline Neubob

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2004, 06:20:43 PM »
[politically correct eunich]
We're all in this world together, people, so whatever happens that's positive, we can all stand to benefit from it, given the right attitude. If the EU is on its way up then we must view this as both an opportunity and a blessing. They are our partners in business and valuable allies in world affairs, and we cannot afford to alienate them anymore then they can us. The civilized world is refered to as such because people are willing to work past geographic borders and ideological boundaries, and possess enough foresight to identify potential gains for all parties involved. Something as insignificant as an ocean should not stand in the way of our being happy for others, as those others have undoubtedly been happy for us in the past. We are, afterall, first and foremost, residents of this planet, and being such, have more in common than we do differentiating us. Let's start acting like it, and end this pissing contest. [/politically correct eunich]

Phew!! I've been dying to try that character out for a while, now. It's like taking a dump with my brain. Time for a nap.

Offline jEEZY

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2004, 06:21:45 PM »
Sorry to be so blunt.

I have all the respect in the world for the Finns--they were maybe the first country to stand up to the tyranny that was the USSR .

Offline Hajo

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2004, 06:44:43 PM »
Straffo

The United States is made up of people from more then 52 different counties as you know.  We do have our problems, and believe me I am rooting for the Euro Union.  If it works, hopefully more stability will be realized not only for Europe but for the rest of the world as well.  Hopefully they won't keep shooting one another in the foot.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2004, 08:10:38 PM »
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Originally posted by OIO
I wouldnt call the EU a 'united states'... it more like a loose federation of nations.


When and IF (which i seriously doubt) they truly merge their military and economy , THEN they may be something for the USA to watch out for.


But.... I really dont see neither France nor Germany , definetely not the UK or any euro nation for that matter doing that. Not in a couple hundred years more at least.

Plus euro population is dropping like a rock. Soon there will be a big economic issues in euroland from this.


More like a loose confederation of welfare nations. Made up of once "was" great powers and never "was" wannabies.

In any event unless France is publically declared its undisputed leader it will never acheive its true potential of a merge because unless that happens France, or I should say the French government will work to undermine those other nations every step of the way as they would never allow France to be governed by anyone who is not French.

Plus, its the French way
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Offline Dowding

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2004, 08:36:15 PM »
Which comment, Rude? The one about anti-semitism being incorporated into European culture?

A baseless assertion and certainly not fact. His statement is so broad it's practically meaningless. Apart from the clear anti-European agenda, of course.
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Offline Halo

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2004, 08:37:27 PM »
A few additional excerpts from the book The United States of Europe:

"...European Union, a new kind of state in which the member nations have handed over much of their sovereignty to a transcontinental government in a community that is becoming legally, commercially, and culturally borderless.  The EU, with a population of nearly half a billion people stretching from Ireland to Estonia, has a president, a parliament, a constitution, a cabinet, a central bank, a bill of rights, a unified patent office, and a court system with the power to overrule the highest courts of every member nation.   It has a 60,000-member army (or 'European Rapid Reaction Force', to be precise) that is independent of NATO or any other outside control).  It has its own space agency with 200 satellites in orbit and a project under way to send a European to Mars before Americans get there." (Page 2)

"Because the united Europe is the world's largest trade market, it is the 'Eurocrats' in Brussels , more and more, who make the business regulations that govern global industry."  (Page 5)

"But one ESA [European Space Agency] satellite project has been designed specifically to challenge American space supremacy -- and has drawn an angry reaction from the Americans.  That is 'Galileo,' a belt of thirty navigational and positioning satellites that will offer an improved version of the American GPS -- or Global Positioning System -- that is used all over the world."  (Page 141)

Other key areas include comparisons of the American and European systems of medical care, welfare, justice (including death penalty), privacy, unemployment, immigration, pensions, vacations, military, drug tolerance, environment, food control, privacy, mass transit, finance, and culture.  

My impression after finishing the book is that America and Europe have a sort of parent-child relationship with neither agreeing on who is which.  Europe would be nowhere nearly as well off as it is today without the American military umbrella and American aid and trade after the two world wars, and many Europeans still acknowedge this.

This book can only be another interim status look at The United States of Europe work in progress.  Formidable obstacles to the United States of Europe include the high cost of its welfare states, the aging core populations coupled with intense immigration pressure from have-not nations, a language morass that includes all official documents being prepared in TWENTY different languages (compared to "only" six for the United Nations), and member nations ostensibly yielding to European Union institutions but only to the point they don't seriously differ from vital national beliefs.

Benefits already include the strong common currency (euro), more efficient and equitable economic markets, greatly improved travel and access, stronger trade and environmental controls, stronger human rights, and tougher privacy rules.

In focusing on Europe and America, the book does not talk much about the rest of the world.  As some of you pointed out, calling this a bi-polar world misses a lot of major influences including China, Russia, Japan, India, Australia, the Middle East, South America, Southeast Asia, and Africa.  

If you're interested enough to be reading this thread, you really ought to at least skim T.R. Reid's book The United States of Europe.  Free at your local library -- check it out.
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