REQUEST - Make troop porking tougher

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by java45
and so what if they do Doc? Isnt this game for them also and not just for the skilled players? Cant we ALL have fun here? Each in our OWN way ?

Where's Urchin when I need him?

The problem is that the more activity starts to focus on these sorts of "tactics" and require such a low level of skill, the more the game will ... suck. You don't learn squat strafing barracks - certainly not after the first dozen times you've done it. So if all you do night after night is strafe non-moving targets you will continue to suck at the game for all eternity.

I'll give you an example. A couple months ago a lot of people were reallty sick of folks bringing in heavy bomber flights on the deck to take out hangars (well, we still are sick of it). A couple of the practitioners of this technique came back with the question of: "What other way is there?" They meant it. With all the planes and options in this game, they couldn't think of any other way to destroy targets.

[bustr]

Dok,

Last night I caught myself grumbling because the bomber flights were at 15k+ and mass porking my feild. I've noticed lately I have to climb up to 20k to take on bombers. Guess the world turned with the easier bomb site.

[Scaevola]

Originally posted by bustr
Dok,

Last night I caught myself grumbling because the bomber flights were at 15k+ and mass porking my feild. I've noticed lately I have to climb up to 20k to take on bombers. Guess the world turned with the easier bomb site.

I always climbed to 15k and sometimes 20k (especially on trinity)
even in AH1.  You may grumble but it isn't really an excessive height to be at in Bombers. You're just gonna have to pedal harder to get up to them .

For me all the fun has gone out of bombing lately, as the new bomb site calibration has made it so even my aged grandmother can pop a radar from 30k+ (literaly tried and tested).

Troops unless they're unporkable at fields they will get porked even if you have a couple of hundred little tents to hit.


Even if troops became unporkable I would just switch to taking out the ordanance instead, lets see how people like machine gunning down towns. Watch out for the 110 hoardes.

[DoKGonZo]

I haven't seen nearly the number of cow-catcher heavy bombers lately. Mostly they're up between 6K and 12K it seems. Which is a reasonable altitude. Maybe the new sight is "too easy" - but switching to it has had the desired effect in the MA. When I ran Rangoon I had the bombing mode back in the old "hard" mode - and for the SEA, CT, or anyplace but the MA it makes sense.


The real problem of troop porking, as I see it anyway, is that it stalls the front. Yes, you can "stop the Horde" .... or you can make sure that a country pinned in the corner can't improve their position. So I guess that could count as "strategy" ... for a 3rd grader. But what you end up with is maps that never move. You spend 3 or 4 hours fighting over a field (that you can't take due to troop porkage) and the next night - guess what - it's still going on.

That 3 or 4 people can effectively stall the game like this for 300 or 400 is an imbalance in the setup.


The secondary problem is that it perpetuates an activity which reduces the level of gameplay.

[bozon]

Originally posted by bustr
Dok,

Last night I caught myself grumbling because the bomber flights were at 15k+ and mass porking my feild. I've noticed lately I have to climb up to 20k to take on bombers. Guess the world turned with the easier bomb site.

15-20k is where the bombers belong. It's nice to see them there instead of diving on the fields from 5k or bombing from 300 feet with F3 view.
Also, this gives them some protection from fighters as only few climb over 20k so they are being attacked by one at a time.

If people claim they can hit the radar / barrracks from 20k with one bomb (can they really?), then perhaps the new bomb sight is a little too accurate.

anyway, troops are porked almost always by fast fighters - typhoons, 190s, P51s, that die 30 sec later of various causes. That's at least what I see.

Bozon

[java45]

Originally posted by detch01
Java - heard of the CT?  Perhaps before forming opinions on the best directions to take it would be wise to see the lay of the land.


asw

Of course Ive "heard" of the CT and I am "aware" of the "lay-of-the-land" I understand, for example, that the stated intent of the CT is to provide just that atmosphere that the poster to whom my reply was directed seems to be looking for,

Perhaps it would also be in everyones best interest if you could direct your CT comments to him....He seems unawre of that arena and wants MA to be more WW2 like.

Again, with all due respect, the MA is NOT meant to be a simulation of WW2 but rather a game( I believe HiTech said that himself once )/So just let everyone have fun their OWN way, and if they dont take this game as seriouisly as you or others, so what ? Its their dime after all.

Maybe the answer lies in the creation of a WW2 arena where acxtual WW2 battles are re-enacted, setup and run by those most involved, the members themselves.

Until then we will just have to deal with ganging, vulching, low bombing runs, etc etc etc etc etc>>>>>I can only shrug my novice shoulders and say " I am having fun !! Are you ? "

[java45]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Where's Urchin when I need him?

The problem is that the more activity starts to focus on these sorts of "tactics" and require such a low level of skill, the more the game will ... suck. You don't learn squat strafing barracks - certainly not after the first dozen times you've done it. So if all you do night after night is strafe non-moving targets you will continue to suck at the game for all eternity.

I'll give you an example. A couple months ago a lot of people were reallty sick of folks bringing in heavy bomber flights on the deck to take out hangars (well, we still are sick of it). A couple of the practitioners of this technique came back with the question of: "What other way is there?" They meant it. With all the planes and options in this game, they couldn't think of any other way to destroy targets.

YES Dok they will indeed "continue to suck at the game for all eternity" but again I must say "so what", if thats what "they" wish to do and "they" arent as serious as yourself and others ? Is that a crime? Or just an obnoxious by-product of our culture of freedom.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by java45
YES Dok they will indeed "continue to suck at the game for all eternity" but again I must say "so what", if thats what "they" wish to do and "they" arent as serious as yourself and others ? Is that a crime? Or just an obnoxious by-product of our culture of freedom.

Having a large number of people who really suck and can still prosper in the game affects everyone.

OK ... let me explain it this way. We have a subculture already of folks who just go around porking barracks and radar. They grab their Tiffy or Pony or whatever and head off to make their 2.0000000 passes on as many fields as they can before running out of ammo, dieing to AAA, lawn-darting, or maybe actually get shot down by someone.

The response you hear a lot in the BBS is: "Well, if you don't want your barracks blown up: defend it."

So now, because someone can profit by really weak gameplay, someone ELSE has to NOT play the way they want. Someone else has to waste the time they spent climbing for an offensive sweep, escort, whatever - to chase down someone who will deliberately auger before allowing themselves to be engaged in combat.

This has been a syndrome of the genre for 15 years.


Oh, and as for "... a WW2 arena where acxtual WW2 battles are re-enacted, setup and run by those most involved, the members themselves" ... uh ... check this out - we been there, done that.

[indy007]

Originally posted by bozon
If people claim they can hit the radar / barrracks from 20k with one bomb (can they really?), then perhaps the new bomb sight is a little too accurate.

Level out, get a steady cruise speed w/ doors open. Go to calibrate mode, open your E6B. Calibrate until your calibrated speed = E6B true speed. When you're within' +- 1mph, you're not going to miss. Only takes about 5 seconds of holding down "Y". Bombs away. Extreme accuracy everytime. Paveway LGB's didn't use to be this accurate. Hell, you can even turn in calibration to fix your lines w/o costing you much, if any, speed.

A squaddie & I upped 2 sets of Lanc's 2 Saturday nights ago. Loaded with 6x2000s & 3x500s. Climbed to 25k. No interceptors showed up. Salvo 3, delay 0.05. I dropped my 18 2ks & he dropped 9. All perfect hits. HQ went pop. We turned for home & porked hangars the entire way with our leftovers. We were in the same room & I had to stop him from calibrating the "old" way and showed him how the new setup works. Bastard got the HQ & 4 hangars that sortie.

A good crosswind would make it a challenge. Right now, it's not. But then again, when you go back to inaccurate bombing, you go back to an MA for 300 ft lanc's in F3 mode.

[java45]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Having a large number of people who really suck and can still prosper in the game affects everyone.

OK ... let me explain it this way. We have a subculture already of folks who just go around porking barracks and radar. They grab their Tiffy or Pony or whatever and head off to make their 2.0000000 passes on as many fields as they can before running out of ammo, dieing to AAA, lawn-darting, or maybe actually get shot down by someone.

The response you hear a lot in the BBS is: "Well, if you don't want your barracks blown up: defend it."

So now, because someone can profit by really weak gameplay, someone ELSE has to NOT play the way they want. Someone else has to waste the time they spent climbing for an offensive sweep, escort, whatever - to chase down someone who will deliberately auger before allowing themselves to be engaged in combat.

This has been a syndrome of the genre for 15 years.


Oh, and as for "... a WW2 arena where acxtual WW2 battles are re-enacted, setup and run by those most involved, the members themselves" ... uh ... check this out - we been there, done that.

NOW that I have "seen" the realality of the time and amount of effort you and others have put into this "game" I must, in all honesty ( and intellegence ) retract most of my statements with a bow and humble appology.

[Scaevola]

Originally posted by bozon

If people claim they can hit the radar / barrracks from 20k with one bomb (can they really?), then perhaps the new bomb sight is a little too accurate.
Bozon

My Grandmother can

Mind you she then went on to blitz through a couple of levels of Doom 3 (vet level).

She has now been banned from the PC (due to the humiliation factor).

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by Urchin
I actually don't agree with taking out the porking of troops.  It doesn't really affect "my game" either way, since I rarely participate in the land grab.  

However, I think porking troops removes the "offensive" capability from a team, but not the defensive ability.  Porking ammo is the same way.  Porking fuel inhibits the teams ability to defend itself, so I think stopping fuel porkage at 75% is reasonable.  

I think a team should always be able to defend what it already holds, but not nescesarily have a free pass to expand at will.  If a team wants to take bases, they need people willing to defend those assests, or fly supply goons to get them back up.

Well said.

Originally posted by Stogey
Killing barracks IMO are the only way the underdog has to slow down an enemy advance.  The night TalonX was talking about the Rooks had 6 full dar bars of fighters hitting Knights very close to HQ.

Yes barracks are easy to kill but it is not impossible to stop it.  Killing strats for most people is a boring job, so is resupplying a base, not many people do it.
Stogey

Exactly. And with the Rooks having so many players online and attacking said area where the troops were being taken out. You’d think a few of them would stop vulching long enough to stop said Barracks Killers.

[onions4u]

The main problem is hardly anyone supplies anymore. If some of you would get out of youre fighters and make a supply run once in a while it would not be such a big problem. I notice the ones that complain  the most about not having troops or ords are the ones that I never see in a m3 or a goon suppling. At least on the knight side. Also it seems to me that the Bishops are the best about suppling a base. I might be wrong but i supply and take troops all the time. Seems like bish bases come up quicker that knights or rooks. I wish we could still take down fuel. When we could more people helped supply.

[Heretic]

I know for a fact that I do not like to re-supply but if one our fields needs it I will do it.   I have ran M3 and C47 re-supply missions and while I don't care for it I will do it.    It burns my butt when I see a low and fast 109 coming into my field all by himself and I know exactly what his target is.  The troops.    I have shot down many troop porkers this tour and the majority are either 109's or Ponys.      If I fail at hitting them I just go to another base and grab the M3/Goon and resupply what they just destroyed. It kinda makes what they just did useless destroying the troops because I will just resupply the base they just porked.

I do feel the barracks need to modeled like the bomber hangars as far as toughness goes.   Just my humble opinon.

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by onions4u
The main problem is hardly anyone supplies anymore. If some of you would get out of youre fighters and make a supply run once in a while it would not be such a big problem. I notice the ones that complain  the most about not having troops or ords are the ones that I never see in a m3 or a goon suppling. At least on the knight side. Also it seems to me that the Bishops are the best about suppling a base. I might be wrong but i supply and take troops all the time. Seems like bish bases come up quicker that knights or rooks. I wish we could still take down fuel. When we could more people helped supply.

And we have yet another Winner!
Re-Supplys runs involving 6 or 8 players make a short job of bringing up a field. Of course if you have 15 players you usally only have to make 1 run each. (Team Work) thats the answer.