NEXT GENERATION F/A-22 RAPTOR: Stealth fighter crashes

[Cobra412]

1K3 even though the Python 5 is almost a medium range missile you still have to pick up the target in the first place.  If you've read the Israeli site that talks about the weapon you'd know that.  Even with a "lock on after launch" capability it's other sensors have to detect the other weapons platform before it can scan a specific area in order to get a lock.  That means again you have to have the ability to track a target in some way or have another system to know the target is there.  

Advanced LPI capabilities of an aircraft such as the F/A 22 will allow it to be tracking its target but remain undetected to conventional RWR and ESM packages employed by a target.  This will negate the "other sensors" using passive radar detection systems to pickup the aircraft. Now it comes down to you illuminating a plane such as the F/A 22 and getting a lock and launch before the F/A 22 does it to you.  Considering previous tests that the F/A 22 has done against the F-15 and F-16 it's gonna be a difficult task to accomplish.  The F/A 22 had the 15s and 16s killed before they ever knew it was there.  To be more specific they never knew where the Raptors were at all.    

Great weapon compared to anything out there currently but it still has its drawbacks just like any other device.  Does that mean someones going to go out and do a test to try and blast 100 million dollar plane out of the sky? No.  Guess we'll just have to wait till someday that the two can meet each other on the battle field.  


Gunslinger after reading alot about Somalia I wouldn't say the troops lacked the right tactics.  Had they equipped themselves for worst case scenario then that would have helped.  The execution of a plan doesn't always turn out as it was planned in the first place.  They expected it to be quick and somewhat easy.  Mistakes on the insertion and extraction killed them.  Had they also been given the gunships they requested it would have also helped.  Had their leaders ensured that everyone in the AOR knew what was going to happen and had an emergency plan it would have helped.  Had they not been so forgiving when it came to the civilians that were clearly assisting in the fighting it would have helped.  That has alot to do with ROE.  When the civilians blatantly helped the militia they should have been immediately recognized as a combatant (man, woman or child).  Problem is now it would be the US Governments word against the media as to why so many women and children died.  Media would claim it was unlawful use of force and our government would claim it was necessary due to the actions being taken by the civilians.  That kind of situation becomes a political nightmare.

[Toad]

Oh, I think history shows the US military was more than ready for the war fighting phase.

It's also clear that the command structure was not ready for an occupation of this nature. Their post-war expectations were wrong and, as a result, their plan was wrong. They've been behind the power curve because of that and it has definitely had a high cost in lives.

I doubt anyone is really in disagreement with that.

[Pongo]

Have to aggree. It honestly was amazing. Modern day prussians.
The problem with this is secuing your logisitics echelon. That is what we would have to highlight as the over sight, how do you secure it in that sitution.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Cobra412

Gunslinger after reading alot about Somalia I wouldn't say the troops lacked the right tactics.  Had they equipped themselves for worst case scenario then that would have helped.  The execution of a plan doesn't always turn out as it was planned in the first place.  They expected it to be quick and somewhat easy.  Mistakes on the insertion and extraction killed them.  Had they also been given the gunships they requested it would have also helped.  Had their leaders ensured that everyone in the AOR knew what was going to happen and had an emergency plan it would have helped.  Had they not been so forgiving when it came to the civilians that were clearly assisting in the fighting it would have helped.  That has alot to do with ROE.  When the civilians blatantly helped the militia they should have been immediately recognized as a combatant (man, woman or child).  Problem is now it would be the US Governments word against the media as to why so many women and children died.  Media would claim it was unlawful use of force and our government would claim it was necessary due to the actions being taken by the civilians.  That kind of situation becomes a political nightmare.

I forgot to mention "the best military plans don't survive the first shots fired"

Also in reguards to somalia, the other mistake they made is the fact that they did the SAME exact mission the previous day/week.  Again, tactics.  But you'd think we'd learn from that battle just what an RPG can do to an unarmored vehicle and blackhawk.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Pongo
The problem with this is secuing your logisitics echelon. That is what we would have to highlight as the over sight, how do you secure it in that sitution.

Well, first they should have prepared for "worst case" instead of "best case". They didn't plan on much post-war opposition.

I'd say they should have planned for the worst, flooded the country with troops on every streetcorner like we did in post-war Germany and Japan and then drawn down if and when warranted. They tried to go for a PC warm and fuzzy "occupation lite" and it bit them hard.

Exaggerating, (for example) I think 1 million post-war combat troops in Iraq would have slowed the insurgency quite a bit and probably done much to secure the logistics echelon.