The Forming of Something Great....

[rshubert]

Originally posted by thrila

I'm currently adapting to using rudder pedals so i'm flying into very poor odds, very often to get as much experience  in the shortest space of time.  

How you doing with the pedals?  I find I overcontrol on rudder, and wish they had more resistance.  I'm just starting to be able to fly again!

[WMLute]

Originally posted by Charon
to save space, not gonna quote the whole thing, just look up and read if you wanna waste 2min of your life on mindless drivel

Wow, I feel spent.
Charon

ok...1st off all I mentioned was how much TIME was spent flying as a fighter.  Nobody (at least not me) was brining up "rank" to prove a point.  As far as k/d goes, i'll use you, charon, as an example.  If you take off 45 times in a fighter (you last tour) and only kill 30 planes, that is fairly unremarkable.  Blame it on being vulched (duh, don't up capped fields) or whatever you want to.  IMHO that says something about your ability. Not much, but something.  In my book, it places you in the "people who probably can't teach me anything" catagory.

After one particular tour where I mouthed off to anybody ranked in the top 20 to get 'em to go to the DA w/ me, I quickly learned how worthless rank meant in so far as your fighting ability.  Granted, I rarely end a tour over 20th in rank, and many top 10's.  What you seemed to miss was that I did VERY little to achieve it.  Out of them 80hrs a month, say maybe 45min is spent on "helping" my rank at the most.  Prob. far less.  I disagree w/ Voss that alot of effort needs to be made to be in the top 20.  TOP 5, yup, that is some work.  Prob. a good 10hrs were spent in the tours I cracked the top 5.  But I still fought, and died, and never flew like a "wuss" to try and protect my rank.  Most of those 10hrs would be in a buff doing strat hits in Ju87's or some similar thing.  Or doing alot of goon/m3 runs.  Never was much for spawn camping gv's.  Far too dull.

MY original point was that with such little flight time, how much could you teach.  Period.  If I am looking for training, I dont' grab some guy who hardly fly's in a fighter looking for him to teach me anything.  I would grab Urchin, or Shane, (or levi, wldthing,Nath, somebody that can "beat" me 6-7 fights out of 10) to go to the DA with.  None of 'em are consistantly low ranked pilots.  Rank is meaningless in re: your fighting ability.

I also don't tend to run off at the mouth on ch200 berating guys who kill me.  You get a tame "g/k" most of the time, SOMETIMES some commentary re: how I screwed up (i.e. my SA sux or some such thing), but never a "lucky kill you dweeb" like many will do.  Not here to get into verbal battles.  I much prefer to let my guns do the talkin'.

Sorry you misconstrued what I meant.  Fairly sure I said I am not here to flame anybody, so don't start one.  Charon, IF you think you have anything to show me re: how to fight 1 on 1, I would be happy to have a lesson with you in the DA to see just how "good" you are.  Heck, you've been flying for at least 3 1/2 years, you SHOULD be able to show me a trick or 3.  

Sadly, I somehow doubt it.  BUT I love being proved wrong.

thrila, again, wasn't flaming you.  You are not a "bad" pilot, and i'm sure you have things your can teach people.  Maybe I was out of line, and if offence was taken, my humble apologies.  Seriously.  Your are just not one I would go to or think about for training, but that doesn't mean you couldn't show rshubert a thing or three.

[rshubert]

That was inspiring.  You managed to include self promotion and false humility into a weave of assumed superiority in a way I have never seen before.  Truly awesome.  I want to have your baby.



shubie

[WMLute]

Originally posted by rshubert
That was inspiring.  You managed to include self promotion and false humility into a weave of assumed superiority in a way I have never seen before.  Truly awesome.  I want to have your baby.



shubie

lol it's a gift.......


.....assumed??????

[lazs2]

as charon implied....

Any Rank system that doesn't have drex and DMF in it as the two leaders is not a rank system based on skill.

If you are any good in this game people know it... If you aren't and want to be you get rank and then have to tell everyone about it.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Self appointed one rank abhove general

[Vudak]

I get the feeling that some people have never fought Lute in a few 1v1's, either in the DA or in KoTH...

I also get the feeling that some people who are calling him certain things have never seen Lute deal with trolls and mouth-runners.

But I'll back up Thrila, I've ran into him a few times and I'd call him a pretty good stick, for what it's worth.

[Charon]

Let’s look more closely at Lute’s scores.

Wmlute is ranked 16th. Going back a few tours he seems to stay ranked towards the middle to top of the pack. He has a K/D of 7, a K/S of 1.75, a k/h of 6.4 and similar attack ranks. He has 251 kills for 39 deaths and has landed 73 out of 124 sorties. He has already played 33 hours this month.

165 Kills in a N1K2 out of 251 total, with ship gunner and Me262 following closest at 14 each and 9 in a Tiger 1. The rest distributed in a variety of aircraft and GVs.

Kills of are primarily slower planes like Spit 5/9/Seafire, C-47s, etc. Of the fast planes there are 10 La-7s, 9 Typhoons, 2 Yaks, 1 G10, 1 D9, 1 51D (25 out of 251).

Killed by, the top 4 are Ostwind, N1K2, LA-7 and Panzer.

Scenario 1: Lute and his merry band of brothers fly to where the fiercest action is and start fighting. He fiercely destroys those plans that aren’t fast enough to run from his guns, while avoiding the passes of the numerous P-51s, La-7s, 190Ds and G10s that seem to populate the “hottest” areas of the arena. Once he has had his fill of kills, he heads back to base. Again, he deftly dodges the numerous faster plans that follow him in his relatively slow N1K2, who are uniquely wise for a change since few of them seem to blow their e and wallow around in front of his Nik2 like they do when there are a lot of them and they see a potentially easy kill. He lands an amazing number of his sorties in this environment, and is truly one of the greatest virtual pilots in the game. Even guys like Drex and DMF, flying with an excellent group of A2A squadmates fail to land most of their kills. Lute is truly an overlooked gem.

Scenario 2: Lute and his merry band of brothers fly to the big green bar facing the small red bar. Lute is a good pilot, likely even an excellent pilot. I have no trouble conceding that he may even be a better pilot than me. If so, he joins a large (but hardly elite) club. Flying the N1k2, and with many, many hours in it and above average skills, he can usually cut to the front of the conga line on the slower planes, each suffering from severe SA overload, and get the kill. With a bunch of friendlies around, included dedicated squadmates watching his back, he seldom has to worry about the occasional fast plane that shows up from a base away. That plane also probably has 15 or more targets to select from, which adds to the safety factor. The occasional fast LA-7 flying low alt base dfense manages to get him on occasion, as does the occasional target. The flight usually ends with an uninterrupted flight home from a capped base or landing at the base after a capture. Multiply by 80 or 90 hours, do those special required things, perform attacks in the same environment, and voila! There’s the rank and the k/d.

Which is the real Lute? You can be an excellent pilot and be very successful in scenario 2, but from what I've seen the elite pilots tend to be more scenario 1 types. It's also been a mystery to me why the guys who are really good remain interested in scenario 2 flying.

Charon

[Charon]

As to the rest, I was hardly positioning myself as a tactical expert of any sort, and that should be obvious to anybody who has paid attention to any of the posts. Jam had a good idea, it seemed to be dying and I tried to pump some life into it. There weren't all that many "great ones" stepping up to the plate. In fact, aside from trying to be a cheerleader I had no ambitions of leading the great assault, as my posts clearly point out. I just want to see an environment develop where there is a lot more H2H fighting or my already limited 8 or so hours a month will become 0 shortly. Purely selfish, but I only play this game for fun and not self-actualization, and fun, to me, is a lot of good H2H fighting.

[And all I get for the effort is to be insulted (along with a bunch of others) by someone who doesn't know me, and who comes in here spouting off about what he "would have done" had he...yada yada yada  while talking up how great he is. Where the hell were you when you could have made a difference?]

to Lute if my assumptions are wrong and you do meet fire with fire on a regular basis. If so, then maybe you would like to organize and lead the next big big confrontation if Shubie is agreeable. If you can get 20 or more together and keep up the fight in the face of resistance (including if things don't go your way at first) then I will personally kiss your virtual bellybutton for the effort. That is what this thread has been about and if you're making the offer, make it happen. I'll drag my rusty bellybutton there, follow your lead and maybe even contribute a few kills to the cause. If you consistently seek out H2H engagements against reasonable defenses, or defend against heavy attacks I will likely follow you around like a puppy dog when you’re online.

Charon

[rshubert]

I have enjoyed our discussions of the issues, and your impeccable manners.  From my standpoint, the issue is still not resolved, as the opposition was not organized.  We really must do this again.  How about Monday night, the 24th, at about 9:30 eastern?  Bring more friends this time!

[WMLute]

KOTH is this sat.  Why don't y'all join me in the SEA and see if I am all talk or not.


If that's not avail.  I am on Sour's flgithladder, come join and issue me a challenge.  Or even the trip to the DA would be amusing.  I use the Sig I have for a reason...

(edit:  cc Shubie, I will see what I can do.  I'll email the squad, and grab some other squads (JB's, FB's, CH's etc... and see if we can get a "rumble" going on monday.)

[thrila]

Wmlute how am i supposed to take it?  You first suggest you can help shubie, then go on to say i am not capable, you don't even know who am I.  You assume that i know little about ACM and 1v1 fiights because i only fly for a few hours?  I've flown for years, mostly 20-40 hours a month, which is a lot of hours, my friends see as exessive for a game.   I simply do not have the time to fly any more than that if i wanted. I've done everything over the tours including flying for rank, missions, super high k/d, furballing and flying little used planesNow i'm more content to do a little bit of everything aslong as it involves a2a combat.  

You think i've never fought urchin, shane et al?  I doubt they have many negative things to say about me.  I'm quite content do my thing quietly and not toot my own horn.  I don't mind that you don't know how i fly or who i am, i do however find it offensive in essence calling someone a poor pilot when you haven't the foggiest who they are.

Shubie, the pedals are ok.  I'm still not 100% with them though.  If a fight gets intense i still every now and then apply opposite rudder by mistake, low speed fights are dangerous, i have many an auger to my name.  i'm missing brief snapshots i used to get, not applying the correct amount of rudder.  Sure i'll get used to it eventually though.

[Charon]

   KOTH is this sat. Why don't y'all join me in the SEA and see if I am all talk or not.

If that's not avail. I am on Sour's flgithladder, come join and issue me a challange. Or even the trip to the DA would be amusing. I use the Sig I have for a reason...

(edit: cc Shubie, I will see what I can do. I'll email the squad, and grab some other squads (JB's, FB's, CH's etc... and see if we can get a "rumble" going on monday.)

I have no problem with that actually. Obviously, if you participate in these events you are not the typical score pilot. I just don't particularly like being insulted off hand by someone who doesn't know me. And, of course, the whole bragging thing is a bit unbecoming, more so if you can actually "walk the walk." I have heard of both events and was interested in both but didn't know the details. What is the format for KOTH? Saturday kind of sucks for me, but we'll see. I have already managed to get shot down by DMF, Fester, Drex, Urchin -- the under-rated Eagler and even HiTech and Pyro. If I end up adding you and Shane to that list (who I was considering taking up on his open TA offer) I won't lose any sleep over it.

I have been playing these games since 1993, pretty much as I described earlier, and have managed a positive K/d since the middle of that first year. I consider myself to be a B pilot, B+ on a very good day when in practice and B- when I am as rusty as I am now. Mainly, I lose my gunnery and need to be dead 6 to get a kill. I just hope I can provide some degree of competition out of the box. In fact, this may be another area to ease the boredom factor, since I have a lot less frustration being killed 1v1 by a better pilot than I do by a nameless face in the red crowd. I have no problem starting out at the bottom and seeing if I can work my way up. It might return some interest and challenge to the game. However, I don't really see myself being able to commit to more than 20 or so hours a month and keep up with RL demands, so there will be limits.

And, I am glad you are taking the lead on the Shubie challenge. I'll be there and maybe bring a buddy. Keep it posted.

Charon

[wrag]

Well dang.

LOL WMLute is my CO.  He flys n fights petty much as he says.  Not saying that because he's CO.  

LOL Consider the fact that I try to get his lady to hit him for me  AND SHE DOES  

OH and I've sang the BOOGER song about him, over the local and squad channel, TOO

He's not what I would call a vain, or arrogant person.  He's more like a squadie then a CO.

RE: pedals, whoa when I first started using em I couldn't hit anything!  Musta took me 3 months to get adjusted to them.  Now?  Not sure I could fly without em.

BTW  Charon I fight allot of defensive fights!  Love em.  Did some of that at A243 defending against inb from A44 this morning.  And at A5 before that. You're more then welcome to come along anytime

Hmm thinkin the nits need a good ONE OH NINER

Thats a 109 fighter sweep mission of a hot area.  Did it up for another arena but thinkin it should tranfer over.  We had a great turnout and fight during it and it started a hugh furball afterward.

[rshubert]

Well, my final comment on the WMLute issue is this.

Anybody who thinks they have nothing to learn has EVERYTHING to learn.  Anybody who is so quick to attack others is probably hiding something that causes them embarassment.

[WMLute]

Originally posted by rshubert
Well, my final comment on the WMLute issue is this.

Anybody who thinks they have nothing to learn has EVERYTHING to learn.  Anybody who is so quick to attack others is probably hiding something that causes them embarassment.

I've been taught life lessons by homeless people before.  I've never considered myself NOT able to learn for anybody.  When I said I had nothing to learn from charon, I said PROBABLY.  I also said I hope I could be proven wrong.  There is the off chance he can teach me something.  Again, I doubt it, but anything is possible.

RE: the KOTH.  KOTH's are awesome.  Prob. some of the best fights I have ever been in/seen have been in the KOTH format.  Basically, everybody takes off, and flys off in diff. directions in a limited area.  Recently, it's been you have to stay within the radar circle of a certain field.  You have to get 5k speration from everybody, and stay under a specified alt (usually 8k).  When fight is called, everybody turns back and fights.  You HAVE to fight.  There is no running.  You are allowed 60 seconds to run, but then you HAVE to turn and fight.  In essence, it's a giant furball.  The last guy standing picks the plane for the next round and off we all go again.  The WINNER of koth is the 1st person to be the last one flying three times.  Win three rounds, you've won KOTH.  Myself, after I won both a Euro KOTH and a USA KOTH, I quit flying to win.  I go for the fights, and to see how long, or how many matches we can go.  If somebody has two wins, I go for them 1st (or try to) so there is a next round.  I almost always have two wins in the KOTH.  I actually pref. being a two time winner, because everybody then targets you, and you get swarmed by 3-5 guys all bent on killing you 1st.  It's INCREDIBLY fun, and I can't count how many truely awesome matches I have had.  I hope you are able to make it Saturday.  (BigMax mentioned possibly Friday night.  I hope we get a set time soon)


Re: stats and rank.  I opened up that can of worms by mentioning Charon's horrible k/d ratio.  I obviously hit a nerve, and i'm sorry you felt embarrased to the extend that you have to post a a couple novella's attempting to insult me.  Your post have been somewhat clever, but WAY off base.  I am one of the few that I know flying that walks the walk.  I like long odds.  I enjoy 2 on 1's.  When somebody says "hey lute, that high nme is attacking you" I go woot!  I love a fight.  I don't mind bad odds, and I actually enjoy it when the nme has the advantage.  I AM the guy that fly's by the easy vulch to kill the field ack.  When I approach a furball, I start out at the top, drive 'em down, rinse and repeat.  You won't find me going nose down at the first co alt opponent.  I also am able to back up what I say.  Period.  It's not ego.  It ain't bragin' if you can back it up.  ANYBODY can get a low rank.  Mine is a byproduct of how I fly.  I bring eggs, so attack #'s good.  I love a fight, and mix it up, so fighter rank is good.  I HATE level bombing, so that is the only stat that I "work" on.  I enjoy gv's a bit, but never had the patience for spawn camping.  Oh i've done it, but usually get bored if I have to wait more than ten min, and generally .ef.  But outside of a Ju87 ride or three, I never "work" on my rank.  So your continued harps on me being "score" driven need to really stop.  A top 10 rank fails to impress me.  Taking me to the DA and beating me, or at least makin' me work for it, THAT impresses me.  Something I hope you will do, or can do in the near future.  NOT flaming anybody, and I have gone out of my way to apologise if anybody felt that I did.  I just call 'em as I see 'em.  Never been one to pull punches.

Oh and Charon/Shubie, I'll know more soon re. Monday night.  I sent out a squad email, and will talk w/ a couple co's this weekend.  We will see what we can come up with.

How many times can I state that rank has no meaning re: fighting ability?  Y'all are, and have been, preaching to the choir here.  Just because I usually HAVE a low (ish) rank, I am not driven by it.  It doesn't shape me as a pilot, or say much about how "good" I am.

Thrilla, I don't know what more I can say.  If I am going to learn how to be a play the trumpet, do I want a teacher that used to play in college and still plays some, or the 1st chair in the local symphony, who also gives private lessons?   Whom would YOU want to learn from?  I made a comment on your lack of flying time.  That's it.  IF you give it just a wee bit of thought, you could see where i'm coming from here.  Don't recall infering that you were a "poor" pilot.  I was just intrigued at the names shubie threw out.  Found them "interesting".  I also would be glad to get a lesson from you in the DA, or TA  sometime soon.  Let's see how much you have to "teach' me.  Let's stop w/ the banter, and let our virtual guns do the talking.