Author Topic: Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?  (Read 2396 times)

Offline rshubert

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2005, 12:25:46 PM »
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Crump he may be right.

China was not conquered by Germany, so it does not count.

Poland 4 weeks, France 6 weeks, Norway 8 weeks.

After the initial conquering, then resistance...


Nope, I think the answer is Egypt.  Never was conquerered.  Was invaded.

Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2005, 12:28:20 PM »
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Let's see.. it estimates there was about 2000 jews at the time and theres a "-" in the number indicating annihilated jews.


Yes, according to http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023

You had them deported to other countries to be killed.

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So what was your point again?


My point is that the facts can be used to create a warped perception and still be the facts.

Facts are:

Finland was an Axis country.  Did the Finnish people wholeheartily support the Nazi's, of course not.  They did what they had to do to survive.

Norway saved 50 percent of her jewish population while under Nazi occupation.  This means 50 percent were sent off to die.  So were the Norwegiens actively persecuting jews?  Probably not.  In fact it is much more representative to say that a large portion of the Norwegien population took great risk to save a great number of their fellow citizens.

So why do so many choose to paint with broad strokes such ridiculus conclusions about the United States based on the actions of few miscreants.  There is no conspiracy at the Abu Ghraib nor anywhere else in the US Government.  Just a few misguided and mostly undertrained national guardsman who exceeded the boundries of allowable conduct.  It's a very emotional event to be confronted with the enemy as a prisoner to be questioned.  For both the captive and the capture.  It takes appropriate training to deal with the situation.  Some folks have let their emotions exceed their judgement.

They are being dealt with right now and we will always persecute those who commit such crimes.

Patrone, as for the CIA video theory, get help.  That is just completely sick and not worthy of being entertained in a discussion.

Crumpp
« Last Edit: January 17, 2005, 12:40:51 PM by Crumpp »

Offline straffo

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2005, 12:41:58 PM »
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Originally posted by Crumpp
Yes, according to http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023

You had them deported to other countries to be killed.


You picked my curiosity so I've searched a bit and made some phone call.  
A grand total of 8 finnish jews (some sources say 11) were deported during WWII
There is a monument called Yad Hashmona near Jerusalem.

IMO Finland was a pretty safe place during WWII compared to a lot of other European countries.

Offline Fishu

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #108 on: January 17, 2005, 05:34:00 PM »
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Originally posted by Crumpp
Yes, according to http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023
So why do so many choose to paint with broad strokes such ridiculus conclusions about the United States based on the actions of few miscreants.  There is no conspiracy at the Abu Ghraib nor anywhere else in the US Government.  Just a few misguided and mostly undertrained national guardsman who exceeded the boundries of allowable conduct.  It's a very emotional event to be confronted with the enemy as a prisoner to be questioned.  For both the captive and the capture.  It takes appropriate training to deal with the situation.  Some folks have let their emotions exceed their judgement.

They are being dealt with right now and we will always persecute those who commit such crimes.


The officers responsible of these guards doesn't seem to be dealt with.
Interesting the guards were able to run amok in the prison, without the officer in charge having any suspicious thoughts.
The officer either a) severely failed in the duty he was put in charge of due to negligence, b) knew about it, but did not stop it, c) gave the command himself.
Some people have been wondering why the hell they took pictures and video of it, which was long long ago explained to be a scaring tactic. They'd show the films or photos to the persons they wanted to reveal their information about the insurgents/terrorists. Try to think of the poor zealous muslim having gay sex or be dominated by a woman. He'd find it rather disturbing and would think twice whether he wants to be a  zealous muslim also in the future. They're quite proud folk you know.

Apparently there are also some memos around linking Bush to certain things which shouldnt have happened.

Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2005, 05:56:02 PM »
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The officers responsible of these guards doesn't seem to be dealt with.


I know the UCMJ pretty good.  It is IMO the most fair justice system in the world.  Especially if you are innocent.  

There were criminal investigations into the proceedings at Abu Ghraib before the story was even given to the press.  General Officers were relieved before this story went to press.  I would guess that justice was served in that.  These officers are responsible for everything their unit does or fails to do.  However you can only take that so far.  If the orders were put out correctly then the soldier has a duty to obey them.  If he does not, while the officer is responsible for the result, the officer has fulfilled his duty and should not be held criminally responsible.  The soldier is criminally responsible.  The officer lost their job and will never command again.

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Try to think of the poor zealous muslim having gay sex


Most of the devout Muslims I have worked with in the Middle East see no problem with premarital gay sex.  As one Afghan told me, "Women are for having babies, boys are for fun."

It is the films of them being naked in front of a woman they are not married too that disturbs them.

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Apparently there are also some memos around linking Bush to certain things which shouldnt have happened.


I highly doubt they are of any substance.  The Commander and Chief does not usually get down in the weeds like that.  He is busy with other things.  Now there probably is broad general guidence such as "Interogate Captured Terrorist and obtain needed information as per US legal guidelines" type of memo. No conspiracy here.

Crumpp
« Last Edit: January 17, 2005, 06:02:20 PM by Crumpp »

Offline wombatt

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2005, 06:01:40 PM »
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Originally posted by Crumpp

Most of the devout Muslims I have worked with in the Middle East see no problem with premarital gay sex.  

Crumpp



:rofl  OK if you say so.
But I think the Koran says otherwise but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #111 on: January 17, 2005, 06:13:18 PM »
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OK if you say so.


Dude it will turn your Stomach.  They threw a party for us as we were leaving the firebase to rotate home.  No women, just young boys dressed up as women!!

Needless to say we did not attend.  

We even had a "roving patrol" at night armed with batons.  Their job was to roam the firebase at night and keep our AMF (Afghan Militia Force) from buggering one another just outside the wire.  A couple almost got shot doing that.  Since we did not want them doing that inside the Firebase the patrol was needed.  Caught like 6 of them going at it in the chow hall one night.  We kept seeing them sneak off.  Heck, I thought they were stealing chow!!  Never would have I thought what they were actually doing. :(

Crumpp

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #112 on: January 17, 2005, 06:32:34 PM »
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Originally posted by Crumpp
Dude it will turn your Stomach.  They threw a party for us as we were leaving the firebase to rotate home.  No women, just young boys dressed up as women!!

Crumpp


Sounds like a prank...>

Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #113 on: January 17, 2005, 06:37:18 PM »
Believe me it was not.

Crumpp

Offline Crumpp

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #114 on: January 17, 2005, 06:37:57 PM »
I only wish it was.....

Crumpp

Offline airguard

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Abu Ghraib 'Ringleader?
« Reply #115 on: January 18, 2005, 10:13:49 AM »
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Originally posted by patrone
Jag vet, nu psykar vi han lite, du vet, så här. med lite "gott" språk.
Jag kan ju skriva FW 190, han kommer att leta sig fördärvad efter översättningen. Bok kan också vara ett bra ord att använda.

Jag är ju lite Norsk, min Morsa är från Kragerö och resten av min Norska släkt från Larvik, Porsgrun. Var där i somras: Kanonväder!


HEHE klart det min venn, vi sees. :)
jævler finnes over alt, definitivt her. Alt for mange syke jævler her.
I am a Norwegian eating my fish, and still let my wife mess me around in stupid shops...