Author Topic: how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total f - up  (Read 9679 times)

Offline patrone

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #525 on: January 27, 2005, 01:28:18 AM »
Hans Blix is running as welll...lol,,,I prefare him,,,

Offline NUKE

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #526 on: January 27, 2005, 01:28:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by patrone
In Bosnia or Kosovo?


In Bosnia, 1995

Offline JB88

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« Reply #527 on: January 27, 2005, 01:29:25 AM »
is he?  

hmmmm.  now where is he from again?
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Offline patrone

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« Reply #528 on: January 27, 2005, 01:31:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
In Bosnia, 1995



the year it ended?

Offline patrone

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« Reply #529 on: January 27, 2005, 01:34:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
is he?  

hmmmm.  now where is he from again?



Cant really remember... From somewhere in europe,,,

Offline Steve

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« Reply #530 on: January 27, 2005, 01:40:02 AM »
Quote
clinton as secretary general. i think hes the man for the job.


Why, exactly?
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #531 on: January 27, 2005, 01:40:13 AM »
he might be able to pull it off i suppose, but clinton already lives in new york.

actually, i cant remember where they said it was, but i think it was supposed to be an asian country that is up next...appearantly they have some sort of base system by which they rotate...and i think it was supposed to be asia...

the article that i read said something about there being debate as to skipping that formality to bring clinton in.

i still say it would be interesting, but i can see where it would be overkill.
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Offline patrone

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #532 on: January 27, 2005, 01:41:21 AM »
JB88, it will be another swede,, thats for sure.....LOL

Offline JB88

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« Reply #533 on: January 27, 2005, 01:45:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Why, exactly?


well, i think that he has a semi-populous viewpoint, that he has the ability to integrate differing opinions and seems to do well with absorbing different ideologies.  the man is intelligent obviosly and has a way of rebounding when put down.  

hes an optimist which helps, and i think that the world could some of that.

now, i hope that this isnt going to turn into a clinton bash, because we had eight years of that and ive had pretty much enough of it ya know?  

i understand what his shortcomings were as president, though i do not share the whole "slick willy" view that many of the right wing elements did.

i think that clinton has the gravitas to lend credibility to the organization and get some things done.

he has had a pretty good perspective for a base from which to jump.
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Offline JB88

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excellent read...and dont i agree on the bumkissing part lol
« Reply #534 on: January 27, 2005, 02:04:20 AM »
We Can Still Win



By David H. Hackworth

 

The invasion of Iraq was sledgehammer-simple: Slug in some “shock and awe” and kiss Saddam Hussein goodbye.

           

But while our troops and generals deserve a big “bravo” for their brilliance and bravery during the initial war-fighting phase, the occupation – which went wrong right from the get-go and has bled along for almost two more terrible years – is going down as one of the biggest snafus in U.S. military history.

           

If the generals had any kind of plan to stabilize Iraq, it had to have been drawn up and approved by serving officers seriously stoned on LSD. But as there’s zip evidence of any high-level pre-invasion planning effort, I suspect that Gen. Tommy Franks bought into all the Pentagon hype about how once the statue of Saddam fell it would be wine, roses and ecstatic dancing in the streets – and then the majority of our soldiers would leave 40,000 peacekeepers behind to assist the appropriately grateful Iraqis in building a booming, oil-rich democracy and return home to confetti and victory parades.

           

Our troops were truly magnificent in the early days of the fumbled occupation. Their skill, sacrifice and flexibility gave new meaning to “take charge and move out, field expediency and staying loose,” and prevented even worse disasters in the chaos that ensued after our forces took down Saddam.

           

There is no doubt both that our warriors won the battle and that our generals blew the occupation and have been playing catch-up – badly – ever since. And nearly two years later, too many of our senior military geniuses still don’t understand that we’re fighting insurgents and that they need to get the necessary additional combat power on the ground quicksmart.

           

Again, the three mistakes that have continued to haunt our forces in Iraq since April ‘03 are: (1) No initial occupation plan; (2) no acknowledgment at the top that we’re fighting an insurgency war; and (3) not enough combat troops to put down the insurgents, who daily become smarter, stronger and better-organized.

           

Our grunts have been letting me know since the early days of the invasion that there has never been enough people power on deck to do the job. “We’re stretched too thin” has been a constant complaint. “Battalions are doing the work of brigades and brigades divisions,” snorts an infantry skipper now in the Mosul area of operations.

           

So far, not one general has had the guts to stand tall and demand more troops from either Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Richard Myers – who was selected for the job because he’s a technical whiz, not a warfighter – or his boss, SecDef Donald Rumsfeld. And late last year, when a reporter tore into Rummy on CNN about how our forces were knee-deep in an insurgency war that wasn’t going well, Rummy remained in undaunted denial, defending the one-note, high-tech 21st-century force he keeps pushing – in spite of the overwhelming evidence that this war is now all about insurgency.

           

Meanwhile, our brass hats appear to be suffering from the Shinseki disease they caught bearing witness to then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric Shinseki’s being treated as a leper for standing up to Rummy over the number of troops needed for the occupation. The lesson learned from this telling example: Don’t cross Rummy. So even though Shinseki was dead-right, the brass went along – to get along – with a shamefully inadequate troop strength.

           

In my judgment, the war in Iraq against the insurgents is still winnable: if Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iran are told to stop supporting the insurgents or else; if we get enough boots on the ground ASAP to saturate and dominate the badlands; and if the brass allow the small-unit leaders to do their thing without the obsessive micromanagement that infects our Army.

           

The troops should be left alone to build up a solid network of Iraqis who want the war to end. Then together they can put down the spoilers and spread the good life that the majority of the people in Iraq are now starting to enjoy.

           

Fighting insurgents is relatively simple. You don’t need to be the top guy in the class to win the game. But you do need common sense and commanders who aren’t afraid to stand up to bum-kissing top brass and dumb policy.
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

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Offline Steve

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« Reply #535 on: January 27, 2005, 10:17:35 AM »
Hackworth?  lol  Are you going to quote Bozo next?  He has the same credibility.


I raised the question about Clinton for the following reason:  If the UN is to survive as a relevent and beneficial organization, it faces some tough decisions as far as its' own policies and how it executes said policies.  As charasmatic as Clinton is, he never demonstrated the ability to make tough and potentially unpopular decisions.  In fact, he has a penchant  for taking the token action and leaving the problems for future administrations.
I don't think this is the kind of leader any troubled organization needs.  
Additionally, I don't think any American  can effectively lead the UN, with so much anti-American sentiment abroad.
This is another irony. Much of the sentiment against us is in regards to invasion of Iraq, can you guess  what percentage of Iraqis are against our actions there?
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Offline Rolex

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #536 on: January 27, 2005, 10:37:34 AM »
6.022 x 10^23 ?

Offline JB88

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« Reply #537 on: January 27, 2005, 11:05:39 AM »
do you know what percentage of americans are against us being there?

perhaps you might consider becoming an iraqi.

as far as your arguements against clinton.

well, the only thing that i agree with is that it would be hard to get an american to run the un effectively, but only because chances are there wont be an opportunity anytime soon.

and gee, balancing the budget, stripping the deficit and reforming the welfare system, all conservative values btw, are just a little thing right?  whatever steve.   and all while repelling a which hunt by the kids who never got chicks in high school.

not bad.  

youd be wrong on clintons credibility globally.  id put it next to dubya's anyday.

i think we'd know who would win that one brother.


88
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline JB88

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #538 on: January 27, 2005, 03:08:15 PM »
raider.  will you be so kind as to take over this thread in my absence?

ill be out of town for a bit.

(D.C.)

you too if you would  patrone.

id like to keep it alive.

please and thank you.




88
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Raider179

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #539 on: January 27, 2005, 03:56:55 PM »
will give it a go lol