how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total f - up

[genozaur]

Originally posted by JB88
 
 excellent read...and dont i agree on the bumkissing part lol

We Can Still Win



By David H. Hackworth



The invasion of Iraq was sledgehammer-simple: Slug in some “shock and awe” and kiss Saddam Hussein goodbye.



But while our troops and generals deserve a big “bravo” for their brilliance and bravery during the initial war-fighting phase, the occupation – which went wrong right from the get-go and has bled along for almost two more terrible years – is going down as one of the biggest snafus in U.S. military history.



If the generals had any kind of plan to stabilize Iraq, it had to have been drawn up and approved by serving officers seriously stoned on LSD. But as there’s zip evidence of any high-level pre-invasion planning effort, I suspect that Gen. Tommy Franks bought into all the Pentagon hype about how once the statue of Saddam fell it would be wine, roses and ecstatic dancing in the streets – and then the majority of our soldiers would leave 40,000 peacekeepers behind to assist the appropriately grateful Iraqis in building a booming, oil-rich democracy and return home to confetti and victory parades.



Our troops were truly magnificent in the early days of the fumbled occupation. Their skill, sacrifice and flexibility gave new meaning to “take charge and move out, field expediency and staying loose,” and prevented even worse disasters in the chaos that ensued after our forces took down Saddam.



There is no doubt both that our warriors won the battle and that our generals blew the occupation and have been playing catch-up – badly – ever since. And nearly two years later, too many of our senior military geniuses still don’t understand that we’re fighting insurgents and that they need to get the necessary additional combat power on the ground quicksmart.



Again, the three mistakes that have continued to haunt our forces in Iraq since April ‘03 are: (1) No initial occupation plan; (2) no acknowledgment at the top that we’re fighting an insurgency war; and (3) not enough combat troops to put down the insurgents, who daily become smarter, stronger and better-organized.



Our grunts have been letting me know since the early days of the invasion that there has never been enough people power on deck to do the job. “We’re stretched too thin” has been a constant complaint. “Battalions are doing the work of brigades and brigades divisions,” snorts an infantry skipper now in the Mosul area of operations.



So far, not one general has had the guts to stand tall and demand more troops from either Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Richard Myers – who was selected for the job because he’s a technical whiz, not a warfighter – or his boss, SecDef Donald Rumsfeld. And late last year, when a reporter tore into Rummy on CNN about how our forces were knee-deep in an insurgency war that wasn’t going well, Rummy remained in undaunted denial, defending the one-note, high-tech 21st-century force he keeps pushing – in spite of the overwhelming evidence that this war is now all about insurgency.



Meanwhile, our brass hats appear to be suffering from the Shinseki disease they caught bearing witness to then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric Shinseki’s being treated as a leper for standing up to Rummy over the number of troops needed for the occupation. The lesson learned from this telling example: Don’t cross Rummy. So even though Shinseki was dead-right, the brass went along – to get along – with a shamefully inadequate troop strength.



In my judgment, the war in Iraq against the insurgents is still winnable: if Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iran are told to stop supporting the insurgents or else; if we get enough boots on the ground ASAP to saturate and dominate the badlands; and if the brass allow the small-unit leaders to do their thing without the obsessive micromanagement that infects our Army.



The troops should be left alone to build up a solid network of Iraqis who want the war to end. Then together they can put down the spoilers and spread the good life that the majority of the people in Iraq are now starting to enjoy.



Fighting insurgents is relatively simple. You don’t need to be the top guy in the class to win the game. But you do need common sense and commanders who aren’t afraid to stand up to bum-kissing top brass and dumb policy. [END of QUOTE]



Not a too bad read.
Yet the words "no initial occupation plan" must be supplemented with the clarification "no sound ocupation plan whatsoever".  

[Steve]

You're a tard.

We were in Germany for 8 years, Japan for 11.

You start crying foul after how long?..months?   TARD.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Steve
You're a tard.

We were in Germany for 8 years, Japan for 11.

You start crying foul after how long?..months?   TARD.

The ocupation plans in one word :
for Germany - deNazification,
for Japan - demilitarization.

So, for Iraq it has to be  "democratization" ?

[Steve]

The ocupation plans in one word blah blah blah

You limp in w/ a maudlin attempt at humor because you cannot  make a point against my last.

Owned... go to bed.

[JB88]

he called you a tard.  

he must be right.

nobody ever uses that word unless they are.  im pretty sure of that.

[Skydancer]

Blimey!!!

Reading this thread you'd think thatawar between America and the rest of theworld is imminent. What is all this"amerihater" stuff?Sounds a little kneejerk and paranoid. I don't think people realy hate other ordinary people ( unless brainwashed into it ) I think they just disagree with Government policies. I disagree with much current US govt policy. It scares me that we have a strong USA govt who is ready to use force of arms to impose its world view on others. It scares me that my once great little country has a Govt with its nose firmly affixed to Bush's pants. But that doesn't mean I or I'm sure many of the rest of us actualy hate Americans. So come on guys. This is a BBS where we can chat about stuff that is interesting not a nationalistic petty little sqwak box for paranoid people! is it ?

[JBA]

Originally posted by JB88
why is it that the united states of america...would have lost what was it 17 casualties in somalia and backed out?  

werent we there to liberate those people from thier warlords?

and what of the sudan?  genocide there.  worse than saddam and usay and qusay could have even fantasized about.

the killing fields, the hutus and the tutsies.

slaughters.  

no rights whatsoever.  nothing.

---------------------------

Because  clinton was a chicken sh it and feard his leagacy more then doing the right thing.

UN turned its back on africa.


next?

[JBA]

So after all that, 11 pages of your iraqi will not work out.

The elections were/are a HUGE SUCCESS.  66% turn out.

Bush and those who voted form him were Correct.

UN, France, Germany, Russia, and Kerry and those who voted for him Wrong side of history once again.

[Skydancer]

Wait and see JBA. Its what happens next thats going to show who was right.

I'm still not convinced the US giovt or anyone else has the right to blow a place to pieces and impose "democracy" on anyone to be honest.

[patrone]

Originally posted by JBA

The elections were/are a HUGE SUCCESS.  66% turn out.

66%? according to who?
Who monitored this election? Who is giving you these figures?

Hope you understand that 66% is a very high claim, even to western standards?

Even if the real figure was 40%, I would be satisfied, that will say: If the election was monitored by anyone.

[Mighty1]

My understanding was that there were some UN people monitoring the election and the numbers were from them.

[patrone]

Originally posted by Mighty1
My understanding was that there were some UN people monitoring the election and the numbers were from them.

My understanding was that it was done from the neighbouring country Jordan, not inside Iraq.

[Mighty1]

You may be right I just remember hearing on the news about # coming from the UN.

[patrone]

And they dont even know if any of the sunnis voted (30% of population) how can they claim 66%?

There is 280,000 Iraqs living abroad that where registered abroad for voting, 80,000 of these are living in my country: Sweden.  60% of them voted. Yet 93% of the 280,000 is claimed to have been voting.

I dont really get this Math together.


 New figures claiming 57% voted, from the original 78% claimed, thats a big jump.
New figures, 60% voted.

[Raider179]

I saw that low % of sunni's voted and several cities had 0 voters. There is a report from al-jazeera (credibility who knows) that only 1 person voted in fallujah. Yes there were some places where people probably didnt vote out of fear or retribution. I will stay say its not a bad start.